Nokta Impact Comparison

Steve - My thoughts exactly. I really appreciate your effort in posting on the forums because you write waaaay better than me.

Steve = Bullseye

They will make a flagship based on what they couldn't do on the impact VLF...I bet they are working on it and now and know what they want to do and how their company in it's few short years in America has really blown everyone away...I expect huge things from them. A lot of us testers gave them enough ideas for the future.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

As posted many times here the older Whites Blue box machines reached maximum VLF Depth back in the late 1980's, It seems that Nokta/Makro have taken all the "Good" modern features and made them work where other could not, IE the ability to find Non Ferrous targets in Iron infested sites and Like the older Blue box machines Nokta/Makro have re-added the ability to Disc out ground signals where as many modern machines GB the Ground on the older Blue Box machines you could GB the machine "But" also use the "DISC" to help clear up the Ground noise, These features are something that worked well for what they were but Nokta/Makro seemed to get these features to work in all modes and 99% of Ground Conditions, Basically Nokta/Makro has fine Tuned their machines giving them a much broader spectrum within their settings creating very versatile machines which the big 4 or 5 always over look, But most of all Nokta/Makro Listen and give us what we ask for as opposed to giving us what they think we would like and that is a Huge difference, As pointed out, they have done all this in 3 or 4 years, heaven knows how far ahead they will be in another 4 years.

They are a first class company for sure.

John.

"Steve,

May the 6th, Garrett are promising 'More Depth!', from what appears to be the existing platform AT, VLF tech?"

Des D Wrote:
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> "Steve,
>
> May the 6th, Garrett are promising 'More Depth!',
> from what appears to be the existing platform AT,
> VLF tech?"

comsumer lawsuit pending for false advertising?, lol

or maybe in precise lab conditions they've eeked out, say a 1 mm increase using a 'carefully constructed/tuned coil', haha

there's no way anyone could conclusively refute their claims....

it sounds good though, I wonder how many folks will 'bite' and 'out with the old', 'in with the new' based on the marketing hype?

I'm waiting for one of the top companies to challenge Minelab's FBS tech, maybe in my (remaining) lifetime, lol



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2017 12:19PM by canslawhero.

Have you pre ordered yours Des!

Des D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Steve,
>
> May the 6th, Garrett are promising 'More Depth!',
> from what appears to be the existing platform AT,
> VLF tech?"

Des D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Steve,
>
> May the 6th, Garrett are promising 'More Depth!',
> from what appears to be the existing platform AT,
> VLF tech?"


You know the score Des. Any of us that have been around do. I have not seen "more depth" on a coin since my Compass Gold Scanner Pro with 12" coil. PI etc for gold nuggets is a different matter - progress seen there.

People confuse the issues and marketers work the gray area. To most people more depth means the absolute maximum depth coins can be detected and accurately identified at.

Right off the bat I can tell you that max depth here in Reno is approximately half what Tom sees in Florida due to the difference in mineralization. His accurate id on a dime at 10" is my accurate id on the same dime with the same machine at 5".

That one fact alone makes nearly all online comparison tests of detectors completely worthless to me. It accounts for the vast majority of online debates, arguments, and accusations of bias, etc. Mineralization rules this game, and what works in mild ground does not necessarily work well in highly mineralized ground. What works well in magnetite laden ground does not necessarily work well in maghemite laden ground, and vice versa.

Even more serious are depth limitations from masking due to adjacent trash targets.

We hit max accurate id depth for clear coin type targets in milder ground ages ago. However, manufacturers are filling in the gaps for performance in highly mineralized ground and in dense trash we therefore get more "apparent depth"

If I have a coin at two inches with a nail to each side, and detector A cannot see the coin because it is masked, and detector B can see that same coin because it has a faster recovery speed, is not detector B "going deeper" than detector A? It can detect a coin at two inches that the other detector can not. By this standard the Deus "goes deeper" than many detectors.but it still won't hit Tom's dime any deeper.

Or a manufacturer uses a different frequency and a better designed coil to find a coin in my Reno ground a bit deeper. Let's say we are looking for a nickel. The previous model has a concentric coil and ran at 8 kHz. Great for silver in mild ground, not good for nickels in bad ground. So we get new model running at 15 kHz with DD coil. Much better depth on nickel in bad ground. More depth! Maybe not quite as good on silver as it used to be, but let's just not worry about that, hmmm? Bottom line no better depth on Tom's dime in Florida, but the ad can claim "better depth".

Previous model did not ground balance to salt range. Poor depth on beach. Now ground balances to salt range, "more depth" on beach. But no better depth on Tom's dime in Florida.

More depth where, on what, under what conditions, and with what trade offs made? Gaining depth in one area often imposes new limitations somewhere else. They never mention those in the ads.

Minelab's new GPZ has technology that allows it to pick up certain spongy, wire gold type specimens that a GPX 5000 cannot detect when sitting on the coil. If a detector cannot detect something, and another detector can find it at 5", how much deeper is that? 100%? 500%? I have personally found targets with my GPZ at depths 200% to 300% deeper than my GPX 5000 can find those specific wire gold specimens. Minelab largely pulled a number out of a hat and was very conservative, claiming "up to 35% greater depth" than the GPX 5000.

People hear what they want to hear. People consistently read "up to 35%" and interpret that to mean "35% across the board". The GPZ will not detect a nice, solid, round nugget any deeper than a GPX. The advantage is on specific gold types. So people get up in arms, much gnashing of teeth and pulling of hair ensues, tantrums thrown, all because people chose to ignore what the words "up to" mean. It means once somewhere, someplace, under some conditions, but true and verifiable. It is a true statement. "Up to" can also mean "same as" under most circumstances.

I get all this. I made my living in marketing and sales. I see right through this stuff but at the same time I do not get angry because I understand it. An advantage is being had, just not for all people under all circumstances. And almost never, under any circumstances, will it mean any more depth on Tom's dime.

People who ask on the internet "will it go deeper" are just engaging in an entertaining game we like to play on forums that keeps forum owners like me happy by stirring up discussions. Are machines going deeper on a dime in the clear in mild ground? No. But are they getting better, by using better coils or better recovery or better discrimination/ground rejection techniques at eking out finds from the ground, very often finds at shallower depths? Absolutely! And are they easier to handle, more forgiving while doing so, making it easier for novices to get expert results? For sure. We are getting machines that are getting more more finds in places other machines failed, and the machine that finds the coin the other machine missed does "go deeper". But please everyone quit with the nonsense and hearing what you want to hear and reading "more depth" to mean more absolute depth on a dime in mild ground. That is almost impossible without that new patent.

I love the new machines, I love what they do and how they do it, and playing around with them brings joy to my otherwise boring life. There are indeed advantages to be had by knowledgeable people leveraging a new coil or a new frequency or recovery speed - or combination of them all - to make finds previously missed. I am personally seeking a machine that runs really well at a low frequency on silver coins, and can then be switched to a high frequency to work well on gold. And satisfies my personal tastes for sound, feel on arm, menu structure, etc. Toss in the ability to also run in true multi frequency mode, for beaches, and we are getting close to the perfect detector. The V3i in theory did it but it has its limitations also. The Impact delivers much of what the V3i offers in a more traditional package and operating system, the only thing really lacking being the multi frequency operation.

So will the new Garrett deliver more depth? I am sure it will on some target under some circumstance in some place. But will it go deeper than existing VLF machines on a dime in the clear? Not if it is a VLF without a new patent number attached. The reality for most of us is I expect an AT Pro with wireless headphone capability built in and hopefully a more readable display for old eyes. Make a great machine a bit better. More depth? Yeah, whatever.

Yep that about sums it up, I have given up looking for the Silver bullet in detectors, These machines are tested in thousands of locations around the world and none of them are like my exact conditions, So I gave up searching for the Silver Bullet and spent the last year testing coils and re-educating myself on the limitations and getting back to reality And the next machine I buy will be because of the design and features that relate to my needs not on what others achieve in conditions alien to mine,

All these companies/most make some incredible products but reviews and videos are solely dependant to that persons location, I can follow FBS, Deus, GMP machines and still find stuff and vice versa, One of my main bug bares with modern machines is the design where there is not enough rearward weight to balance the machine when using larger coils and later Whites and FT and the Racers are all guilty is this and as soon as I see that type of design I switch off, The older Whites and GP/GPX machines lend their selves very well to using larger coils and I just wish that these companies would remember this, Swinging an Etac or Quatro with a 14/15" coil makes for hard days work and the same with FT and the Racers, The Balance of the machine is crucial, As heavy as the old blue box is it floats at a natural angle where it will balance on one finger, modern machines always appear noes heavy.

John.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2017 04:36PM by auminesweeper.

Diggs4ever Wrote:
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> There is nothing new or revolutionary with this ma
> chine if you hunted a site out with the deus, ctx3
> 030 or the f75 for that matter don't expect to fin
> d any new targets with the impact. It;s a nice loo
> king detector but like I said it doesnt offer anyt
> hing worth a switch. you wont see any videos that
> blow your mind because this machine is performs ju
> st like others on the market.


I don't agree with this at all. I've proven time and time again that the Racers (R1 & R2) can hunt behind F75, Etrac, CTX., and find targets they missed. I would assume that with the additional search modes, new software, and ability to switch frequencies, that there's no doubt the Impact has it's place. It will certainly be replacing some of my high end machines.

On that note, I draw your attention to the opening post on 'Deus using X Y screen' thread!!!!!

virginia digger Wrote:
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> This answers my original question which was is it
> any better than current machines ? Its a beautiful
> machine but I need more than beauty to get on the
> hype train. If it doesn't do any better depth than
> an F75 or Explorer, its just a competitor. Marketi
> ng is a great tool for sheep.

I've had a F75 LTD since 2009, upgraded to LTD2 a couple of years ago during their great upgrade fiasco, but they finally got it dialed in perfectly with a new motherboard and firmware upgrade!! I've put thousands of hours on the F75. I used to detect a lot of old NorCal parks, but now I mostly detect early iron infested sites, and the F75 has done OK at those sites. I've made some great finds, but over the years, but I found that my Racers outperform my F75 on every hunt. By outperform, it wasn't that it was deeper, it wasn't that it was faster, it just simply put more keepers in my finds pouch then the F75 did, over and over. I've detecting "hunted out" test patches, first with the F75, and then with the Racers, and every time the Racers have found targets the F75 simply could not see, or ID'd as iron (never vice versa). Some were shallow, some were deep, but the truth remains that the Racers are putting more keepers in my finds pouch then any of my other machines.

Don't get me wrong, the F75 is a fine machine, but it lacks iron audio, doesn't have adjustable tone break, doesn't have the ability to change frequencies, adjust tones, doesn't do as well in mineralized ground, etc. Does that make the Impact a better machine, that depends on you, where you hunt, and if leveraging any of these features that the F75 lacks will help you make more finds.

Other things I find useful, but obviously probably won't make more finds are the adjustable backlite (hate that it's stuck on the F75), I can do a software updates myself, factory wireless headphones, not some hack with a transmitter strapped on my F75, and a receiver box to put on my belt to plug into my wired headphones, that's NOT WIRELESS! It's like having to plug in your phone into a belt mounted brick to make calls (wait some Android users do that - LOL!).

At any rate, I'll definitely be posting my thoughts on it as it's going on a 3-day Impact focused detecting road trip soon. I post things as I see them, so it's not hyperbole, I don't salt videos with perfect condition "dug" nickle 5 cent pieces and handfuls of Morgans. I show what I dig, be it iron, junk, or otherwise.

One sentence Brian!------CAN'T WAIT FOR YOUR REPORT!!----------Del

What Del said !!!(tu)

Craig

Just wondering how it hit on that troublesome nickel in your test bed? 5-14-20 Khz?

Tom

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
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> I post things as I see th
> em, so it's not hyperbole, I don't salt videos wit
> h perfect condition "dug" nickle 5 cent pieces and
> handfuls of Morgans. I show what I dig, be it iro
> n, junk, or otherwise.

haha love it!

I thought long and hard about posting this. I have had it typed out at least two times now and then just ended up not posting it. It has caught my attention that the testers have grown quiet about the machine. I'm not sure if that's because they might be waiting on others to get them to start posting or if they just took so much flak from posting during the initial prototype release, that they got tired of people being so confrontational towards them. I kinda lean towards it being a little bit of both. Only one of them has continued to talk about the Impact here and he is the one that others have hinted towards salting finds to make it look good. I wont be that brazen to suggest that although I too have my suspicions. I will say that, that particular person is one I don't put much stock in with what they say anyway.

I did end up getting a left over Impact Pro package that no one had pre-ordered. I have had it a week now and done a lot of testing with it and have logged several hours of hunting with it. What I can give you is only a small initial first impressions of it. I don't have enough hours on it to give a detailed report.

First impression is that I really like the build of the machine. How it looks...how it assembles, how it feels while swinging. I like the sounds of it as well. I have not been a fan of the previous Nokta/Makro machines but this one has a different feel and sound to it for me and I like it. It surpasses my testing that I do on detectors...hits every target in my test garden, including a very hard to get 10 inch dime. The only other current VLF machine that I have that can do that, is the eTrac with the 13 inch Ultimate coil on it. It wont hit the dime with the stock coil but the 13 Ultimate gives it just enough more umph to sound off on it and correctly ID it. The CTX wont get it. The F75 and Omega I just sold couldn't get it in disc mode without iron grunting on it. The Impact with the stock coil and any of the disc modes will get it and ID it with the correct tone. As far as testing purposes goes, it ranks right at the top of nearly every VLF machine I have tested. I wont lie, I was impressed with that. It for certain ain't just a repackaged Racer or Relic. It has a similar feel to it but at the same time, is very different.

HOWEVER -- I have taken it to a few spots now that I have pounded with other machines and thus far, have not pulled the first keeper out of them with the Impact. Now I don't know what exactly you can gather from that. It could simply mean that the sites just don't have anything in them left to find; because I am referring to sites that the last several times I've been to them with my "trusted" machines, have also produced nothing. But like all of us do, we have to take a new machine to such places just to see what happens. Some people may do the same thing with the Impact at their sites, and come out of there with a keeper or two. I'm just saying that it hasn't happened with me yet. Now granted, I have dug non ferrous targets out of some of those places....but those were targets dug just to see what they were when learning a new machine. My other machines had been over the same targets and my judgment based on ID and tones said the targets were junk and thus left in the ground. As far as getting a signal that I would determine might be a coin on the Impact and then checking it with another machine and either not getting the signal at all or a signal that it determined was junk...and the target actually be a coin or keeper....NO that has not happened. IMO, unlike the original red Racer, there is a lot of telling audio and good ID with junk targets. I can already start to tell whether something is going to be junk vs the good clean targets like that are in my test garden. So there is that. The audio is very clean and not clipped and I like it...especially the 3 and 4 tone modes. I have only dabbled a little with the 99 tones but must say, that it is not one of my favorites. It sounds like someone being annoying with balloons and squeaking them. hahaha

I think it is going to be a very good machine. I didn't hesitate to sell 3 machines after I saw the Impact could do everything the others could do and then some. It was several inches deeper than the new version F75 I just sold. This particular Impact with stock coil in 3 and 4 tone mode can air test a US dime at 13 inches. I think that is pretty good for a machine with a coil of that size. That's right there with what the F75 can do in BP mode if you have one of those machines...the difference is, that BP mode does not jive well in ground with minerals but it does air test some impressive numbers. The Impact's 13 inches is usable in the ground...the 10 inch dime is the deepest high conductive coin I have buried and it gets it no problem. Deep mode on the Impact is similar to BP mode on the F75....it is a little slower recovery speed than the other modes and does appear to be slightly deeper than the other modes in the air...but not so much in my ground. If you have inert soil though, that might benefit you...the option is there anyway. With the renewed interest in the T2 Classic here lately, I jumped on one of those and it should be here tomorrow. I'm interested to see if it is any different than the new batch F75 like I just sold, and if so, how that compares to the Impact. Tomorrow I plan on taking it to the picnic grove spot that I found the Walker half a couple weeks ago. It is ate up in modern trash and steel bottlecaps. Thus far I have not had the Impact in a site like that so it will be interesting to see how it compares to what I personally consider to be the best metal detectors for dealing with modern trash...the Minelab FBS machines. The F75 got a big F at that site just for the bottlecap problem. For me, that will tell the tale of whether the Impact is a rounded machine or if it is going to follow in the footsteps of their previous offerings, and only be a good niche machine at picking non ferrous items out of iron while not being the best at being able to cherry pick coins in modern trash.

-------------------------
I do have a few minor complaints about the Impact though. Here they are in case you might be interested to know.

1. Size of the menu text. I am in my 30s and still have decent eye sight but to my eyes, the menu text font is a little too small. I can read the screen but it's not as easy as some machines to just look down and see where it's at with a quick glance. I appreciate that they put all the menu items right there and that you don't have to go scrolling to find stuff. But in this case, it might not have been a bad idea to have put the more expert menu item changes in a "folder" or something to make room for bigger text font on the screen.

2. Battery door. This case may be user error instead of an actual problem but I have a tough time getting the battery door open on my machine without putting excessive force in doing so. It would have been a lot better if it utilized a door like the F75 or T2 has on the back. Instead, I feel like I am having to pry the door off to get to the batteries to change them out. This wouldn't be an issue if it weren't for the low mileage the users are going to be getting with this machine on battery life. Frequent battery changes are going to have to be made to keep the machine going. I think the battery door is the weakest point on the whole design. I read on another forum that another user was also having trouble figuring out the battery door. I thought I had broken the tabs on mine while trying to get it open. There ether is some trick to it that I'm missing or it's just really that hard to open. If so, I look for there to be a lot of broken battery doors.

3. The battery life itself. I knew from reading the testing reports that the battery life was lower than usual but I still didn't expect it to be as bad as what it is. I got my unit Saturday and put new Duracell AAs in it. I spent a little bit of time testing the machine against the F75, Omega, eTrac, etc but not for like hours on end. Just quick air tests, and trying various things out in the test garden. Then hunted with it Mon and Tues for a few hours. By the time I was through hunting for the evening on Tuesday, I had 1 bar left on my battery icon and this was with me using it in 14 khz and not 5 khz. I have not tried the rechargeable batteries yet but feel they are going to be a must in order to keep operating cost of this machine down. If you guys have ever ran a CTX 3030, you know it comes with the Lithium battery pack and the AA battery pack. The Lithium battery is the primary battery and the AA is the backup....if you have ever ran the AA battery pack, you know how fast it drains the batteries. The Impact is the same way. The F75 and T2 spoiled all of us with having so much power and the ability to seemingly go forever on 4 AAs.

Those are just minor complaints. If you have good eyes, #1 wont be an issue and even the battery door might still be user ignorance instead of an actual problem. That's my two wheat pennies worth for today. It was a long read I know...and not a lot of depth but it is a good starting place for a first impression post.

WTG Daniel, Great write up, I can see how the battery door would be a worry even more so on a new machine, Not knowing always sits in the back of ya mind, It seems to have many features that suit your style of hunting and the more you use it the more sense it will all make, Like all new machines it takes a while to squeeze the best out of them, But you are right regarding the lack of noise surrounding this machine, I have been waiting for 4th of July type reviews but alas "NO" so it is a bit hard to get fired up over this one at present, But give it time I am sure it will take off, Maybe folks are busy putting them through their paces,

Good luck mate, and thanks for the great report.

John.

Great report, Dan.

I didn't have any trouble with my battery door. I put batteries in initially with no issues and changed them with no issues. As to the the size of the menu font, I would have to agree BUT I have to use readers for most any task anymore so even if the font were larger it wouldn't matter for me...I still need the damn readers. It is a good point though. HH!

Dean

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought long and hard about posting this.


Very good writeup thank you for your unbiased review of the impact. Integrity goes along way, Cheers Chad

That's a good write-up Daniel. I too thought the battery door could've been better designed, but if that's the biggest fault, I can live with that.

Thank You, Daniel, that's the sort of informative reply I was hoping the OP's question was going to bring forth.

Wow. Intelligent/Comprehensive/Well-orchestrated thread.

Excellent report Daniel.----Keep us updated of your thoughts on the Impact.-----Let us know what you think of the T2 Classic also.-------------Del

For the battery door, I set the detector in front of me so I was looking directly at the battery door. Placed my thumbs in the center of the door and using my index fingers on each side, pulled back with my fingers as I pressed forward with my thumbs as if I was trying to bend the door . Works perfect.

Thanks Tom, works better than the way I have been doing it.

Tom Slick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the battery door, I set the detector in front
> of me so I was looking directly at the battery doo
> r. Placed my thumbs in the center of the door and
> using my index fingers on each side, pulled back w
> ith my fingers as I pressed forward with my thumbs
> as if I was trying to bend the door . Works perfec
> t.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

Some impressive info from: Daniel,Keith,Tom,Steve and several others---please keep up the feedback---The Good,Bad,and Ugly.

Steve Herschbach: "More depth"--your write up on this Most Misunderstood topic was the Best I have ever seen. Thanks for taking the time to put into clear words what "more depth" really means to the Pro and Newbie.


Note to everyone: Print a copy of Steve's "More Depth" and make it everyday in the John reading.

hey Steve H. thanks for the write-up! best MD writing I've ever seen hands down and you zeroed right in and put to rest the whole 'depth' issue....(for VHF's)

too bad that post can't be made into a 'sticky' of some sort....would cut down on the same studid questions being ask ad infinitum....

btw, you should think about writing some sort of 'pdf' electronic book of your various writiing's ie: tech issues, your big gold finds, your trips, MD comparisons, etc, etc...

Many folks are interested in your insights and revelations...and would buy it in a heartbeat....

One thought/question I had for you, Reno sounds like it sucks for detecting coins, ie bad dirt and lack of finds?, so why even do it?

I'd be out looking for gold year-round if I lived in Reno....

keep up the fantastic writing, and btw, your website rocks, best MD site out there!

That's great information Daniel, thank you.

I'm curious on your experience with EMI. Do you find it more or less of an issue on the Impact than your other detectors? I've seen many reports of EMI with the Impact, but no comparisons with other machines.

Thank you!