Here's the new Minelab Equinox

In the past/present...... Minelab has utilized a dual-frequency triangular waveform with their Explorer/CTX platforms........ with a somewhat semi/quasi-PI analyzation on the receive side of the house............,,,,,,,,,,,,,, looking at only certain/timed/select/exacting snap-shot "portions" of the return/received signal. It is exactly this 'timed' analyzation (sequential......or otherwise) ...... that would partially justify/qualify quasi-PI methodology. In the present/future........ Minelab is accentuating/expounding upon this A-IP (ie Equinox). Any time that you extrapolate your data (received and/or transmitted)..... in a time-domain.........,,,,,,,,, you encroach/enter the realm of 'pulse' definition. In bad dirt........ it is plausible to see deeper ...and with better ID......utilizing this methodology....... than compared to single frequency continuous-wave VLF.,.,.,., of which can only be attenuated by this bad dirt.

Hence, my question; Why retain single-freq option(s)?

"You're right Tom...ML do say their VLF is Pulse derived!"

Yeah I think Minelab has touted their FBS in time domain (Pulse like) WORDING for a while now.

I do like that it has ability to select a single freq because from the track record with Minelab BBS/FBS is good for ID at depth in bad soil or even wet sand etc..but for dissecting work for low conductors intermingled in iron its can be behind a single freq unit on say 19Khz...

PLUS ------------and this may be the real reason....................We can do what the Deus does But can the Deus do what we do??

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

NASA-Tom Wrote:
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> But............. isn't the verbiage/semantics: Wil
> l OBSOLETE single frequency metal detectors?

I look at it this way. If the multi-freq modes truly obsoleted all single freq machines in "all scenarios" then why add the option of single frequency choices... Simply to have that choice?.. Maybe so, maybe not.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

I'm thinking that they included single frequency options, because if they didn't someone would complain!!!! But another reason would be that in rare instances, it may do better than the multi frequency. Possibly EMI. If for some reason multi does not work well, you would be stuck with it. So the option to try other frequencies is there. Also we have to remember that they are trying to make a machine that works all over the world. Our problems / solutions here, may not be the same as half way around the world.

I wouldnt be surprised if the equinox is just the updated xterra line and we will later see this hybrid single/multi in a better performing $2k slot with similar ID and performance as fbs machines. maybe replace ctx or see price ajustment to 2k for ctx and 2.5k for the new flagship.

detectingMO Wrote:
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> I wouldnt be surprised if the equinox is just the
> updated xterra line and we will later see this hyb
> rid single/multi in a better performing $2k slot w
> ith similar ID and performance as fbs machines. m
> aybe replace ctx or see price ajustment to 2k for
> ctx and 2.5k for the new flagship.

sheesh, I hope not! but I have had the same thought (TGTBT), lol

detectingMO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wouldnt be surprised if the equinox is just the
> updated xterra line and we will later see this hyb
> rid single/multi in a better performing $2k slot w
> ith similar ID and performance as fbs machines. m
> aybe replace ctx or see price ajustment to 2k for
> ctx and 2.5k for the new flagship.

For $2500.00? IMO it would have to be more than a deep coin hunter to warrant that price in this day and age. A multi tasking combo giving serious performance in both relic and coin hunting would have a lot of takers. Single task machines are becoming a thing of the past.

Tom

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

I wonder, can Minelab implement some form of soil/EMI/etc. analysis / intelligence and switch / decide between SF and MF ? As intelligence is added as well as CPU horse power, maybe there will be situations when switching between SF and MF are advantageous. (USB updates anyone?)
When that is, I have no clue. Above my level of understanding. But perhaps sometimes MF or SF (due to conditions) is too reactive and a switch is needed. Would sure be interesting if the machine could do that, just like it would scan for the best channel.

I said all that because when I had a V3i, it was just too much for me to really test, given reasonable time constraints. Extrapolating to a simpler platform, hmmm....

Albert

NASA-Tom (or anyone who might know) --

Any idea what this little "blurb" means (the part I bolded/in italics) on Minelab's Equinox 800 web page?

Other Technologies
EQUINOX 800 offers 5 single frequencies of 5, 10, 15, 20 and 40 kHz, giving an expanded 8-times range of 5 to 40 kHz.

On the page for the EQ 600, it says this:

Other Technologies
EQUINOX 600 offers 3 single frequencies of 5, 10, and 15 kHz, giving an expanded 3-times range of 5 to 15 kHz.

YES, I see that 40 is "8-times" 5, and that 15 is "3-times" 5. But I'm not getting the significance of what that means? It's obviously more than just giving us an "arithmetic" lesson! Since they are listing this 3x and 8x thing under the "other technologies" header, there must be some significance there that is over my head...

Steve

"The Minelab EQUINOX is truly in a league of its own. In the short time I've been operating this machine, I've recovered deep coins and artifacts from iron infested sites that other machines simply cannot detect."

– Brandon Neice

I wonder why the other machines cannot detect there? and which machines are they? is Brandon saying that the Equinox is the new pinnacle detector for iron infested sites?

Well said, that is one of the things that crossed my mind when first reading about the Equinox. Either automatically or the detector alerting the user that may be the case while working the ground.

Tom

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I retain one
> primary question: If the multi-freq option is the
> pinnacle performer; ........ What function/purpose
> /niche does retaining the option of single-frequen
> cy operation have....... other than a basis unto w
> hich to 'compare' ....and/or..... for old-school folks?

From the Minelab Multi-IQ explanation:

"The EQUINOX 600 offers a choice of 3 single frequencies and the EQUINOX 800 offers the choice of 5 single frequencies. Both models cover a much broader range of targets when operating in Multi than any one single frequency can, however, if excessive ground noise is present in a particular detecting location, switching into a single frequency can help to eliminate this." Emphasis added.

It would seem to me that the Equinox will in effect be a proving ground for the very question you pose Tom. Will people find good uses for the single frequency modes, or will they prove to be unused vestiges from another era? At the very least however EMI mitigation is one stated niche. The existence of a single frequency only "Gold Mode" on the Equinox 800 would seem to imply another.

There may be too much being made of this. What do we make of the Impact being "the most powerful all around detector ever made!" The AT Max gets "maximum detection depth!" and the Fisher F19 is "the best relic machine ever!".

Neither Minelab nor any other detector company has ever had any problem making extravagant claims. When the new one is in your hands, for a long time and under many conditions, then you'll know.

Quote:"Any idea what this little "blurb" means?

Other Technologies
EQUINOX 800 offers......, giving an expanded 8-times range of 5 to 40 kHz.

Other Technologies
EQUINOX 600 offers ...... giving an expanded 3-times range of 5 to 15 kHz.

YES, I'm not getting the significance of what that means? It's obviously more than just giving us an "arithmetic" lesson!"

As you know, different targets have different 'best response' frequencies, and these can vary from below 2kHz up to 50kHz for "common, worthwhile" targets. By pointing out the '800' covers a frequency range of 8 : 1, they are saying this machine gives you a much improved chance of matching detector to target, and finding stuff. The 3 : 1 range of the '600' is good (especially compared to a single-freq machine) but it's still somewhat compromised.
Having 3 operating frequencies is not in itself great. If they were: 10kHz, 12kHz, 14kHz, it would be rather pointless, you would barely be able to tell the difference. (how many times do you see XP Deus users saying they can't tell any difference between 12kHz and 18KHz operation?)
However 3 frequencies such as 5kHz, 20kHz, 50kHz would also be non-ideal, despite covering a 10 : 1 range, as the 'gaps' are too big.

All previous FBS/BBS machines operated at two primary frequencies with an 8 to 1 ratio between them - 3.12 kHz and 25 kHz. The 800 follows that pattern except that the lowest frequency is 5 kHz and the upper one is 40 kHz. The 600 seemingly uses a 3 to 1 ratio between the lowest and highest frequencies. That’s something new.

Does that have any practical significance when operating in multifreq? Time and field usage will tell.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2017 05:07PM by lytle78.

Semantics ambiguity(s).

Steve....... I appreciate your homework-to-input. To me, it remains somewhat of a paradox. In general........ single freq'ers have presented a greater level/propensity to EMI/falsing...... vs...... multi-freq units. For instance; the CZ platform is one of the most quiet/stable platforms to date........ and for the past +1/4-Century. The Minelab multi-freq'ers are next on the list. Single freq units seem to express greater instability........ especially the hyper-gain units of recent (decade). With product in hand...... we shall be enlightened.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For instance; the CZ platform is on
> e of the most quiet/stable platforms to date......

True, but does the CZ not achieve this by being susceptible to “silent EMI masking”? I am pretty sure you Tom are the one who enlightened us to this. It just makes sense that a detector that genuinely processes multiple frequencies is going to have a better chance of having interference on at least one of the frequencies. And that choosing one specific frequency would be a way to mitigate that. At least it seems that way to me.

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All previous FBS/BBS machines operated at two prim
> ary frequencies with an 8 to 1 ratio between them
> - 3.12 kHz and 25 kHz. The 800 follows that patter
> n except that the lowest frequency is 5 kHz and th
> e upper one is 40 kHz.

>The 600 seemingly uses a 3
> to 1 ratio between the lowest and highest frequenc
> ies. That’s something new.
>
> Does that have any practical significance when ope
> rating in multifreq? Time and field usage will te
> ll.
I believe the 600 multi will be identical to what the 800 uses, so the same 8 to 1 ratio and implies for the price it'll be a damn good value as Craig states...
cheers

Steve Herschbach Wrote:
>
>The existence of a single frequency only "Gold Mode" on the Equinox 800 would seem to imply another.
>

This interests me, because some Minelab people have stated that the Prospecting Mode offered both single frequency and multi-frequency modes, yet others are stating that it's single frequency only. Also notice that it was the missing mode on the prototype at Detectaval, so perhaps they had some issues with the multifreq option and opted to go with single only, or maybe they got it to work as desired and we'll actually see a multi-freq Prospecting mode available. We'll soon find out.

I would surmise that 40 kHz would be a good choice for gold prospecting, and I'd like to try this out at Rye Patch (never been before).

-Brian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2017 07:09PM by Cal_cobra.

Steve.......... That's correct. The CZ is certainly susceptible to 'silent EMI' performance reduction; however, the rate at which it occurs on a CZ platform..... is minimal .... as compared to most other detectors..........,,,,,,,,,,.............. single or multi-freq units.

----------------------------------------------------------

Just for the record............ and specifically on this thread: I'm certainly seeing/witnessing an exceptional amount of equipment/detectors up for sale....... en-masse.............. (((just prior to the introduction/release of the EQIQ))). Hmmmmmmmmm.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Just for the record............ and specifically o
> n this thread: I'm certainly seeing/witnessing an
> exceptional amount of equipment/detectors up for s
> ale....... en-masse.............. (((just prior to
> the introduction/release of the EQIQ))). Hmmmmmmmm
> m.

You noticed that too eh? Interestingly they seem to be all across the board, from the all mighty CTX to the lowly AT-Pro, interesting indeed.

We know from previous FBS detectors that they are limited when it comes to picking out small/thin low conductors. So I would expect even though the recovery speed in multi-frequency mode may have been improved upon, it might still offer limited performance on the low conductors - hence where the single frequency modes on the Equinox come into play.

The way I see it is they they are simply giving you a more well rounded detector to cover pretty much every detecting scenario you can come across (bar PI territory), and that means no need for multiple detectors to cover additional environments such as salt and highly mineralised ground where VLF's can lose a decent chunk of depth ability, and display a fair bit of instability. That is pretty much the Achilles heel of most current VLF's that the Equinox is going up against, not to mention relatively poor target ID ability on deep targets.

For an example, If you want to detect ploughed fields where many low/high conductor targets can be tilled close to the surface, it might be advantageous to run in VLF mode, if targetting deeper finds where the tones/ID start to head beyond effective range in single frequency mode, switching over to multi-frequency may well improve the response.

I've had some areas where multi-frequency has failed me due to EMI, both on the Explorer and Etrac, and regardless of channel/noise cancel setting were near on unusable. Having single frequencies to play with on the Equninox should hopefully help avoid such scenarios, as was the case mentioned above where I had to revert to my Deus or Teknetics G2 to be able to continue detecting (powerline transformers). Amazingly the G2 was absolutely dead quiet in comparison, probably one of the most EMI resistant detectors I have used, even on 100% gain.

So I don't really think there is any extra "magic" at play here on the Equinox, just more useful options to the end user, and contained in a convenient single platform. Remember the price point on the Equinox, it is a $900 detector, not a $2500 CTX.

The UK MD sites have been awash with top end 2nd hand machines for sale since Detectival, some very good bargains to be had.
Other than entry level machines, it's hard to see any manufacturer selling big quantities of vlf detectors next year until the buzz of the Equinox slows.

You got to feel sorry for some of the smaller manufacturers.


Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NASA-Tom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Just for the record............ and specifically
> o
> > n this thread: I'm certainly seeing/witnessing a
> n
> > exceptional amount of equipment/detectors up for
> s
> > ale....... en-masse.............. (((just prior
> to
> > the introduction/release of the EQIQ))). Hmmmmmm
> mm
> > m.
>
> You noticed that too eh? Interestingly they seem
> to be all across the board, from the all mighty CT
> X to the lowly AT-Pro, interesting indeed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2017 10:59AM by ghound.

One thing is for sure with the hype and statements made by Minelab on the Equinox line...if it flops or doesn't live up the hype or at least get close...It could bury them just as easy as it could bury other companies if it does.

If this thing doesn't "fly----there will be a lot of folks jumpin' outta airplanes----without parachutes.

doc holiday Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this thing doesn't "fly----there will be a lot
> of folks jumpin' outta airplanes----without parach
> utes.


Haha.

detectingMO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One thing is for sure with the hype and statements
> made by Minelab on the Equinox line...if it flops
> or doesn't live up the hype or at least get close.
> ..It could bury them just as easy as it could bury
> other companies if it does.

and Brandon's statement to the effect that it had taken the place of his CTX really added fuel to the fire....

It's going to be put under the microscope, that's for sure, lol

I'm really looking forward to seeing how the dust settles, especially since the season is essentially over up here in the great Northern regions.
I'll have a lot to read and digest before my 'likely' purchase in April, when the ground thaws.

detectingMO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One thing is for sure with the hype and statements
> made by Minelab on the Equinox line...if it flops
> or doesn't live up the hype or at least get close.
> ..It could bury them just as easy as it could bury
> other companies if it does.

This is a very good statement and I would say true for the most part. When you tap into the "cost effective" crowd, they levels of scrutiny rise exponentially. ML has a reputation to protect more so than other companies. They have so much to lose on this. However, I would like to think that the top MD company in the world would plan for every contingency. So I am going to say that this product is going to be a home run.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> detectingMO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One thing is for sure with the hype and statemen
> ts
> > made by Minelab on the Equinox line...if it flop
> s
> > or doesn't live up the hype or at least get clos
> e.
> > ..It could bury them just as easy as it could bu
> ry
> > other companies if it does.
>
> This is a very good statement and I would say true
> for the most part. When you tap into the "cost eff
> ective" crowd, they levels of scrutiny rise expone
> ntially. ML has a reputation to protect more so th
> an other companies. They have so much to lose on t
> his. However, I would like to think that the top M
> D company in the world would plan for every contin
> gency. So I am going to say that this product is g
> oing to be a home run.

etrac was a 'home run' for me, then ctx came along at it's VERY high price point....I hesitated to buy it and put it off for some time before finally
caving in....it certainly did better (for me on well hunted older sites) but I wouldn't call that one a home run......
I seem to recall that I paid about $1200 cdn for the etrac with a spare rechargeable battery....in hindsite was a good deal, fair price...

the Equinox will sell for about $1200 cdn + 13% (ouch!) tax....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2017 05:59PM by canslawhero.