New Fisher Manta

I would luv to be a fly on the wall when the"Three Musketeers" get together.

I think Tom made a point way back in one of his posts where he talked about adjusting for certain target ranges. He said the machine would be hotter on gold targets..... but that didnt mean higher range tagets would be totally disc out...... just a little less sensitive..... so whats that mean with a PI over a VLF maybe nothing since it gets more depth and it maybe very slight. So i wouldnt get to excited about it being less sensitive on those targets.

I agree...... Cal and Tom seems to be to opposite sides of a coin....... should be quite a debate....but most of the time someone always learns something.

So apparently the Manta will be a specialty detector, not designed to detect a wide range of non-ferrous targets or even a wide range of gold targets. I'm okay with that. It sounds like the kind of detector that I would use after first searching an area with a multi freq machine. Then I would go in with the Manta and get a few pieces of gold that the other machines missed. Maybe a lot of gold.

Is this a correct assumption?

If the Manta can get six inches more depth on gold and identify iron while doing it, then I would buy that detector.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2018 02:39PM by Badger in NH.

Badger in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So apparently the Manta will be a specialty detect
> or, not designed to detect a wide range of non-fer
> rous targets or even a wide range of gold targets.
> I'm okay with that. It sounds like the kind of det
> ector that I would use after first searching an ar
> ea with a multi freq machine. Then I would go in w
> ith the Manta and get a few pieces of gold that th
> e other machines missed. Maybe a lot of gold.
>
> Is this a correct assumption?


I only carry one detector to the beach. What I have is it for the day.

I have been trying to wrap my head around what more usable depth on gold means and is worth. Here’s some data on what it means.

Here’ s what Terry in Hawaii - who was testing Eric Foster’s Aqastare in Hawaii posted in 2000 (and remember Tom reckons the Manta will outdo the Aquastar).

More Gold with Aquastar
Terry in Hawaii
July 10, 2000

“This morning I went to a very heavy hunted local beach and reached a goal that I had set for my self. It was easy to tell that it had been hunted last night since there was very few coins to be found. However I ran my tight pattern and I got three 14K gold rings and a 14K gold heart pendulum. The smallest ring weights 0.7 grams. This bring me up to 27 gold items in the time period from June 10th to July 10th. As many of you know that I only found 27 gold items from the first of the year until the middle of May. My goal was to equal this amount of gold finds in a month with my Aquastar. Saturday I had found several gold teeth but I don't count them since they are not jewelry.
Terry in Hawaii”

Then to sum up his time with the Aquastar, he wrote...

Re: Terry in Hawaii's 6 months of Aquastar gold
Terry in Hawaii
Date: January 17, 2001 09:48A

“I did give away two gold items and one platinum ring which are not shown. I did give away two gold items and one platinum ring which are not shown. So the grand total is 3 platinum rings and 107 gold items. There are 3 gold chains, 4 gold bracelets, 14 gold pendulums, 29 gold ear rings and ear ring post, 56 gold rings and one gold tooth crown. The two platinum rings shown are enclosed by the lower part of the large Hawaiian 14K gold bracelet.
Terry in Hawaii

Nice detector?

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2018 02:16PM by lytle78.

I'll have to quit reading this thread. You are making me want to move to the beach.

HH
Mike

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> A lot of our sites don't require hard-core machine ability. They are more a function of "location location location". But some other sites, yes, the "tad more depth" makes the difference. Or the "tad better see-through" makes the difference.

What Tom doesn't really realize, is that some of the sites we detect are heavily mineralized. He's oblivious to that because he's using an Explorer2, which handles the mineralization with ease, but my F75, ATP, Nok/Mak machines are handicapped at these sites. One site we were at when I was hunting with the Impact had such heavy alkali soil, the Impact couldn't even do a ground grab ground balance, I had to manually GB it and it came out @ 20. This particular site had some deep finds too, Tom and I have both dug some deep targets (aside from iron, why is iron always do damn deep - LOL!!!), but then again many are only a few inches deep, no rhyme or reason as to depth, aside from likely animal activity. It's a site that's not thick with iron so I suspect the Equinox will do well there. Tom and I have always been pretty equal at the end of the hunts with conductor counts (after I started using the Nok/Mak machines, not so when I was using the F75), but I really have to work to bring in some of those signals, the audio might start off as a just a tick, scrape some dirt off the surface with my boot, and work to bring in a better signal, it wastes a lot of time, but does work. We were hoping to get back to that site this weekend, but due to some wifey interference, we have to settle on a much closer local backup site

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have been trying to wrap
> my head around what more usable depth on gold mean
> s and is worth. Here’s some data on what it means
> .
>
> Here’ s what Terry in Hawaii - who was testing Eri
> c Foster’s Aqastare in Hawaii posted in 2000 (and
> remember Tom reckons the Manta will outdo the Aqua
> star).
>
> More Gold with Aquastar
> Terry in Hawaii
> July 10, 2000
>
> “This morning I went to a very heavy hunted local
> beach and reached a goal that I had set for my sel
> f. It was easy to tell that it had been hunted las
> t night since there was very few coins to be found
> . However I ran my tight pattern and I got three 1
> 4K gold rings and a 14K gold heart pendulum. The s
> mallest ring weights 0.7 grams. This bring me up t
> o 27 gold items in the time period from June 10th
> to July 10th. As many of you know that I only foun
> d 27 gold items from the first of the year until t
> he middle of May. My goal was to equal this amount
> of gold finds in a month with my Aquastar. Saturda
> y I had found several gold teeth but I don't count
> them since they are not jewelry.
> Terry in Hawaii”
>
> Then to sum up his time with the Aquastar, he wrot
> e...
>
> Re: Terry in Hawaii's 6 months of Aquastar gold
> Terry in Hawaii
> Date: January 17, 2001 09:48A
>
> “I did give away two gold items and one platinum r
> ing which are not shown. I did give away two gold
> items and one platinum ring which are not shown. [
> color=#CC0000] So the grand total is 3 platinum ri
> ngs and 107 gold items. There are 3 gold chains, 4
> gold bracelets, 14 gold pendulums, 29 gold ear rin
> gs and ear ring post, 56 gold rings and one gold t
> ooth crown. [/color] The two platinum rings shown
> are enclosed by the lower part of the large Hawaii
> an 14K gold bracelet.
> Terry in Hawaii
>
> Nice detector?


Oddly I spotted Terry in Hawaii on this forum this morning, but no posts?

Rick,

Mahalo for bring back old memories. The large Hawaiian 14K gold bracelet was a fresh drop and it gave such a big signal. I though it was a coke can. Recently with my Equinox 800, I dug up my first platinum tooth crown. I have no idea how many gold tooth crowns I have found. But gold is gold. So looking forward to getting a Manta to use. I know where I will be using the Manta the first day for finding the real deep old gold targets!

Aloha

Badger - if you had a Manta, then I would search with it first - you would aboid iron masking which would otherwise have with any VLF. You would also probably miss sone clad and very occasional silver. As long as the clad was all in the dry sand, a Compadre with the discrimination screwed to the max would clean it up!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

With their GPZ, Minelab showed the world years ago that you could charge about 6 ounces of gold for a gold detector (Gold $1230/oz - GPZ -$7900). The Aquamanta in 2000 was also 6 ounces of gold (year 2000 prices - gold $272/ounce - Aquastar price $1600).

So FT could charge $8000 for the Manta - it will definitely find as much if not more gold per year than the average amateur GPZ user.

Of course that would be crazy - or would it?

How about comparison with a CTX - introduced at $3249 or thereabouts - now selling for $2499 with an extra coil (guess the Nox dented sales).

here are a couple of clips to consider. First a CTX and A Manta on iron mails, a gold ring and bags of black volcanic sand - full of magnetite. This is a 5 minute clip from the 20 minute one I posted previously.

[vimeo.com]

The second is a comparison of the Manta to a Sovereign XS (similar depth to a CTX I believe) - on a 2 euro coin - Manta 15.75" - Sovereign 11.02"

[www.youtube.com]

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2018 02:16PM by lytle78.

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cal_cobra Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > he's stubborn as I'll get out.
>
> Including that $5 gold I graciously planted for you to find. (you're welcome ).
>

You mean the gold coin that right when I dug it, you said, and I quote "I can't believe it, I've been over that area several times!"

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Badger - if you had a Manta, then I would search w
> ith it first - you would aboid iron masking which
> would otherwise have with any VLF. You would also
> probably miss sone clad and very occasional silver
> . As long as the clad was all in the dry sand, a
> Compadre with the discrimination screwed to the ma
> x would clean it up!


The reason I would use the VLF's first is because there is a lot of competition for silver coins and shallow gold in the cuts we hunt. I want to get those easy targets first, then go in with the Manta and clean up the deep gold after.

I don't hunt much dry sand. The sites I'm thinking of are usually washed out rocky cuts or deep black sand with very old coins and rings. One gold ring I dug recently is engraved Oct. 18, 1883. There has to be a lot more down there and it's out of reach of the CZ20 and Equinox. The Manta is just the detector I need to get down into the lower layers.

.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2018 07:20PM by Badger in NH.

Let’s get real world on that CTX price.... $1850. Here in Fl.... some paid $3000 plus for a new ...somewhat unknown AquaSound designed by tendall of nautalus. Its a 14khz single freq that works in salt water. Kind of an unknown machine that bring big bucks. If it works they will pay. But how many will sell? This machine has set an eyebrow raising goal.... compare its self to the aquastar and exceed in it some ways. If it does that on small gold..... I’ll add this to the Nox

Yes, the Nox has been very unkind to its big brother. An out of warranty CTX is a rapidly depreciating asset.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2018 11:40PM by lytle78.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> >
> > Including that $5 gold I graciously planted for
> you to find. (you're welcome ).
> >
>
> You mean the gold coin that right when I dug it, y
> ou said, and I quote "I can't believe it, I've bee
> n over that area several times!"

I will deny I ever said that. (OH .... wait ... I think you caught that comment on video.) Ok, back up : Cal Cobra pulled a fast sneaky move, on the video editing. And added that "supposed comment from me", in with the aid of computer voice simulators. Added in to the video to *appear* that I was saying it. That's the ticket.

You gotta watch out for these tech/puter guru types and their video manipulating .

Can anybody please tell me how it reacts to 22k gold and above in discrimination modes??

Ringmoney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can anybody please tell me how it reacts to 22k go
> ld and above in discrimination modes??


As with ANY detector, that groups things by conductivity, it will depend on the size of the object. Composition (alloys, purity, type metal, etc...) are not the only component of the question. Size plays into it.

22k is almost pure (just a few points off from 24k). So I would imagine that would read as a higher conductor, on a size-per-size basis. But still, size will play into it. A dainty wire thin 22k ring might read below the threshold cutoff point of the Manta, thus lumping it in the "low conductor" (ie.: "gold" ) category. But if you've got a gutsy big fat man's 22k ring, I bet it reads ABOVE the cutoff point, into the higher conductor range.

This would be an easier to answer question, if it were about 14k, 18k, and plat. Because for normal sized rings, those tend to differentiate themselves as "low" conductor (from the mid-point of the scale, to downwards). And it takes an awfully big 10 or 14 or 18k or plat ring, to read up into the "high conductor" range. That would have to be big honkin' men's class rings or brass knuckles type objects. But for 22k (less alloys, more pure, hence higher conductor to begin with), the scale of size could be skewed.

Very little jewelry found here in the USA, is ever 22k or 24k.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2018 02:40PM by Tom_in_CA.

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ringmoney Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can anybody please tell me how it reacts to 22k
> go
> > ld and above in discrimination modes??
>
>
> As with ANY detector, that groups things by conduc
> tivity, it will depend on the size of the object.
> Composition (alloys, purity, type metal, etc...) a
> re not the only component of the question. Size
> plays into it.
>
> 22k is almost pure (just a few points off from 24k
> ). So I would imagine that would read as a higher
> conductor, on a size-per-size basis. But still,
> size will play into it. A dainty wire thin 22k ri
> ng might read below the threshold cutoff point of
> the Manta, thus lumping it in the "low conductor"
> (ie.: "gold" ) category. But if you've got a guts
> y big fat man's 22k ring, I bet it reads ABOVE the
> cutoff point, into the higher conductor range.
>
> This would be an easier to answer question, if it
> were about 14k, 18k, and plat. Because for normal
> sized rings, those tend to differentiate themselve
> s as "low" conductor (from the mid-point of the sc
> ale, to downwards). And it takes an awfully big 1
> 0 or 14 or 18k or plat ring, to read up into the "
> high conductor" range. That would have to be big
> honkin' men's class rings or brass knuckles type o
> bjects. But for 22k (less alloys, more pure, he
> nce higher conductor to begin with), the scale of
> size could be skewed.
>
> Very little jewelry found here in the USA, is ever
> 22k or 24k.

I suppose it all depends where the cut off point is, hence why I am asking. Here in Ireland (and UK) most gold is 9k but most older gold is 22k. I would hate to think that a gold sovereign which is 22k would be rejected???

Ringmoney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can anybody please tell me how it reacts to 22k go
> ld and above in discrimination modes??


Tom in CA / summed up well
except the 24 k / too close to the iron window
and that is not taken in reject mode

it is not a question of carats but of weight
and setting the reject mode range

if you just crack a nail / hairpin
you will have a clear sound on big ring 22k and less

if you push the rejection to the maximum
rings over 30 gr 18k are lost (even less with a TDI....)

note: I did not do tests with 14k or less
I find mainly 18k ..
the lower carats its easier to take / also depends on the alloy

but on this same setting / maximum rejection
he will take gold rings of less than 5 gr among the iron
at a level never reached by any detector

one of the beta testers (from this forum) to find a gold ring on his first release
a beach full of iron

as with any detector
you have to adjust according to the beach condition

we responded at the same time

with a light and comfortable rejection
I take the gold napoleon 20F / 22k as the sovereign

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detector used : Fisher Aquamanta /

Pulsepower Goldscan 5c / Aquastar / Goldquest SSV3 / Nexus Coronado / Vista Gold

LE.JAG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> we responded at the same time
>
> with a light and comfortable rejection
> I take the gold napoleon 20F / 22k as the sovereig
> n


Are you saying the rejection point is adjustable?


Also how is like on hot rocks, especially red bricks?


In all metal, how does it compare to a TDI in respect to the Size Shap and Signal rules?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2018 03:22PM by Ringmoney.

Ringmoney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LE.JAG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > we responded at the same time
> >
> > with a light and comfortable rejection
> > I take the gold napoleon 20F / 22k as the sovere
> ig
> > n
>
>
> Are you saying the rejection point is adjustable?
>
>
> Also how is like on hot rocks, especially red bric
> ks?
>
>
> In all metal, how does it compare to a TDI in resp
> ect to the Size Shap and Signal rules?


Yes, the point of rejection of the iron, is adjustable
and playing on the SAT / you lengthen the curve (+/-)

he takes a gold ring / through 90% of the red bricks and hot rock
here too / everything depends on the weight of the ring and the thickness of the brick
everything has a limit / even him

in all metals
it is more sensitive and deeper than the TDI pulscan 14.4 volts

what do you mean by / signal size ??

LE.JAG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ringmoney Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > LE.JAG Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > we responded at the same time
> > >
> > > with a light and comfortable rejection
> > > I take the gold napoleon 20F / 22k as the sove
> re
> > ig
> > > n
> >
> >
> > Are you saying the rejection point is adjustable
> ?
> >
> >
> > Also how is like on hot rocks, especially red br
> ic
> > ks?
> >
> >
> > In all metal, how does it compare to a TDI in re
> sp
> > ect to the Size Shap and Signal rules?
>
>
> Yes, the point of rejection of the iron, is adjust
> able
> and playing on the SAT / you lengthen the curve (+
> /-)
>
> he takes a gold ring / through 90% of the red bric
> ks and hot rock
> here too / everything depends on the weight of the
> ring and the thickness of the brick
> everything has a limit / even him
>
> in all metals
> it is more sensitive and deeper than the TDI pulsc
> an 14.4 volts
>
> what do you mean by / signal size ??


Cheers for the replies. I meant in all metal, is it easier to tell if a target is iron vs good targets?

LE.JAG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> .... the 24 k / too close to the iron window
> and that is not taken in reject mode
>

Le.Jag : I don't understand this sentence of yours.

24k is not close to iron range (unless we're talking pinhead sized nuggets ??) . If we're talking rings, the 24k is up @ high conductor. I once found a 24k ring, that was not even that heavy. Only the diameter of a swizzle stick coffee stir straw, and only the circumference of a USA dime in shape. And yet ....... it read up near penny ! A first I thought it was brass or something . Since *certainly* a gold ring doesn't read up that high, for this size. But once I had the Chinese translated, realized it was 24k.

So how do you figure that 24k is close to iron ?

Ringmoney Wrote:

> Cheers for the replies. I meant in all metal, is i
> t easier to tell if a target is iron vs good targe
> ts?

yes as with other PIs
lift the coil (acquisition limit)
makes it easier to mark iron in all metals mode

I can even recognize the zippers of coca alu
with a sharp drop in the audio curve


Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LE.JAG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > .... the 24 k / too close to the iron window
> > and that is not taken in reject mode
> >
>
> Le.Jag : I don't understand this sentence of your
> s.
>
> 24k is not close to iron range (unless we're talki
> ng pinhead sized nuggets ??) . If we're talking r
> ings, the 24k is up @ high conductor. I once foun
> d a 24k ring, that was not even that heavy. Only
> the diameter of a swizzle stick coffee stir straw,
> and only the circumference of a USA dime in shape.
> And yet ....... it read up near penny ! A first
> I thought it was brass or something . Since *cert
> ainly* a gold ring doesn't read up that high, for
> this size. But once I had the Chinese translated,
> realized it was 24k.
>
> So how do you figure that 24k is close to iron ?

on the PI, the reading of the gold is done on the impulse delay
on this reading window 24k is unfortunately too close to the iron
we lose it in reject mode / and it's no longer a matter of weight
we do not see him ...

we have rings of 2/3 gr Asian 24k
they go to the trap

it's the system to use, as a rejection mode
who is e cause and we can not go back
Alexandre thinks to be able to solve the problem on next version
with a powerful calculator

Note: all tests are carried out with the standard coil 12.5
it is possible that the smaller coils will improve the thing

on the other hand as already said
in all metals mode the 7us will be the most sensitive on the 24k
more sensitive than any other detector

saw the work being done
I think that Alexandre will have a detector capable of taking
the whole range of gold / including 24k
and reject any type of iron / including stainless
without loss of depth / in the next 3 to 5 years
but one thing at a time

the Fisher AQ is already able to do things
that we thought impossible .....

Will we see a manual we can down load before the machine hits the streets?

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will we see a manual we can down load before the m
> achine hits the streets?


probably yes
there is already a first draft for the first testers
we are waiting for feedback to improve..

there will also be a series of videos
beginner / comfirmed / pro setting
and others to deal with specific cases
the videos are more explicit ...

LE.JAG Wrote:


> on this reading window 24k is unfortunately too cl
> ose to the iron
> we lose it in reject mode ......

AAAaaahhh, now I get it. Yes: the iron and high conductors are grouped together when someone is trying to discriminate. This could be a problem, depending on where the calibration cutoff is for "high conductors" range.

But....doesn’t size matter? At what point....size or weight will that take place?