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MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE
Posted by NASA-Tom
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE December 30, 2022 12:39PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 86 |
re:
Related to the importance of NC I wonder is there an optimum height to lift and hold the coil before noise canceling?
This may seem obvious to some but for four years I have been watching others keep it on the ground, hoisting it waist high, aiming the coil to the most likely source of EMI. The manual on NOX says just lift it. I have had my NOX for almost 4 years April and still don’t know.
Regards
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2022 05:36PM by FloridaSon.
Quote
NASA-Tom
this is exactly 'why' the coil MUST be COMPLETELY STILL......whilst performing any form of Noise Cancel.
Related to the importance of NC I wonder is there an optimum height to lift and hold the coil before noise canceling?
This may seem obvious to some but for four years I have been watching others keep it on the ground, hoisting it waist high, aiming the coil to the most likely source of EMI. The manual on NOX says just lift it. I have had my NOX for almost 4 years April and still don’t know.
Regards
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2022 05:36PM by FloridaSon.
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE December 30, 2022 05:08PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 355 |
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE December 30, 2022 07:44PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 25 |
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Different subject:
> On a typical ocean beach..... there are 5 distinct
> sections of a beach:
> 1. Dry sand
> 2. Damp sand
> 3. Wet sand
> 4. In-the-"splash"
> 5. IN the water
> ALL of which require: Different settings.... in or
> der to maximize finds/performance.
>
> Out-of-time........ but I will explain set-up/conf
> ig for each of the 5 beach sections..... in the ne
> ar future.
Nasa Tom - very much so looking forward for you to elaborate on this when you have the time!!
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Different subject:
> On a typical ocean beach..... there are 5 distinct
> sections of a beach:
> 1. Dry sand
> 2. Damp sand
> 3. Wet sand
> 4. In-the-"splash"
> 5. IN the water
> ALL of which require: Different settings.... in or
> der to maximize finds/performance.
>
> Out-of-time........ but I will explain set-up/conf
> ig for each of the 5 beach sections..... in the ne
> ar future.
Nasa Tom - very much so looking forward for you to elaborate on this when you have the time!!
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 01, 2023 04:43PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,408 |
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> gts........ auto-tracking Noise Cancel is nearly i
> mpossible whilst swinging/sweeping the coil. The d
> irt, targets and mineralization would look like no
> ise-deltas to the unit. And........ in furtherance
> ...........,,,,,,,,,,,,............ this is exactl
> y 'why' the coil MUST be COMPLETELY STILL......whi
> lst performing any form of Noise Cancel.,.,.,.,.,.
> , with any/all brands of metal detectors.
I find this very interesting.
The "long-press" noise cancel "trick" that NASA-Tom has shared, apparently makes a HUGE difference. I mentioned this to a friend, who has had a Manticore for awhile now, and has been putting out a number of videos that several of us have seen. Anyway, he did not know about the "long-press" trick, and so I shared it with him. He called me the next day after a hunt, to let me know that long-press noise cancel COMPLETELY changed the behavior of his machine (stability, etc.) -- for the better, obviously. It seems, as NASA-Tom stressed, that this is a "big deal," in terms of being one of the attributes built into the Manticore, that is going to allow us to achieve PEAK performance. It's probably worth it for all of us to go re-read the procedure that NASA-Tom laid out, as I do not believe this is in the manual.
And now -- this further hint (that the coil must be kept COMPLETELY STILL), adds to my understanding of how to set the unit up for peak EMI mitigation (peak performance). I had never considered the idea that WHILE IN NOISE CANCEL MODE, ANY signal that the machine receives, is thus treated by the unit as an "EMI" signal, that needs to be mitigated. So, if holding the coil too "low" (close to the ground), to where it's reacting to the soil, OR detecting targets, would "confuse" the noise-cancel process, with the machine then trying to "cancel" that target signal as if it were "EMI."
For me, the long-press noise cancel (done frequently), and holding the coil ENTIRELY STILL, 12" or so above the ground, are two things I will absolutely be laser-focused on remembering/doing, when I (finally) get my unit.
We've all been told many times here, by NASA-Tom, that VLF-IB performance is nearly "maxed out," in terms of its absolute depth capability. There's apparently not a whole lot of blood left to squeeze from the turnip, so to speak, in that regard. HOWEVER, it seems to me that where gains can still be made, is by some tough engineering work aimed at mitigating those things that prevent a machine from ACHIEVING its maximum depth capability (i.e. "bad dirt" mitigation, EMI mitigation, etc.). NASA-Tom, in his perfect, non-mineralized sand, if he's in an area where EMI is minimal, can achieve detection depths that exceed what I am capable of achieving here, by more than 50%. The reasons for that would obviously seem to include EMI, my red Oklahoma clay, etc. And SO -- given that NASA-Tom has been saying for years that EMI mitigation is a HUGE focus of his, it is logical to conclude that his work on the Manticore would have included a hyper-focus on improving the EMI handling of the unit. And so, my conclusion is that I very well may, here in Oklahoma, see greater depth capability from the Manticore, compared to EQX or FBS, SIMPLY due to better EMI handling engineered into this unit. And apparently, the key to UNLOCKING this "better EMI handling" is in LONG-PRESS NOISE CANCEL, with the COIL HELD STILL (so as not to be detecting any "signal" other than pure EMI interference while the noice-cancel process is underway...)
Steve
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> gts........ auto-tracking Noise Cancel is nearly i
> mpossible whilst swinging/sweeping the coil. The d
> irt, targets and mineralization would look like no
> ise-deltas to the unit. And........ in furtherance
> ...........,,,,,,,,,,,,............ this is exactl
> y 'why' the coil MUST be COMPLETELY STILL......whi
> lst performing any form of Noise Cancel.,.,.,.,.,.
> , with any/all brands of metal detectors.
I find this very interesting.
The "long-press" noise cancel "trick" that NASA-Tom has shared, apparently makes a HUGE difference. I mentioned this to a friend, who has had a Manticore for awhile now, and has been putting out a number of videos that several of us have seen. Anyway, he did not know about the "long-press" trick, and so I shared it with him. He called me the next day after a hunt, to let me know that long-press noise cancel COMPLETELY changed the behavior of his machine (stability, etc.) -- for the better, obviously. It seems, as NASA-Tom stressed, that this is a "big deal," in terms of being one of the attributes built into the Manticore, that is going to allow us to achieve PEAK performance. It's probably worth it for all of us to go re-read the procedure that NASA-Tom laid out, as I do not believe this is in the manual.
And now -- this further hint (that the coil must be kept COMPLETELY STILL), adds to my understanding of how to set the unit up for peak EMI mitigation (peak performance). I had never considered the idea that WHILE IN NOISE CANCEL MODE, ANY signal that the machine receives, is thus treated by the unit as an "EMI" signal, that needs to be mitigated. So, if holding the coil too "low" (close to the ground), to where it's reacting to the soil, OR detecting targets, would "confuse" the noise-cancel process, with the machine then trying to "cancel" that target signal as if it were "EMI."
For me, the long-press noise cancel (done frequently), and holding the coil ENTIRELY STILL, 12" or so above the ground, are two things I will absolutely be laser-focused on remembering/doing, when I (finally) get my unit.
We've all been told many times here, by NASA-Tom, that VLF-IB performance is nearly "maxed out," in terms of its absolute depth capability. There's apparently not a whole lot of blood left to squeeze from the turnip, so to speak, in that regard. HOWEVER, it seems to me that where gains can still be made, is by some tough engineering work aimed at mitigating those things that prevent a machine from ACHIEVING its maximum depth capability (i.e. "bad dirt" mitigation, EMI mitigation, etc.). NASA-Tom, in his perfect, non-mineralized sand, if he's in an area where EMI is minimal, can achieve detection depths that exceed what I am capable of achieving here, by more than 50%. The reasons for that would obviously seem to include EMI, my red Oklahoma clay, etc. And SO -- given that NASA-Tom has been saying for years that EMI mitigation is a HUGE focus of his, it is logical to conclude that his work on the Manticore would have included a hyper-focus on improving the EMI handling of the unit. And so, my conclusion is that I very well may, here in Oklahoma, see greater depth capability from the Manticore, compared to EQX or FBS, SIMPLY due to better EMI handling engineered into this unit. And apparently, the key to UNLOCKING this "better EMI handling" is in LONG-PRESS NOISE CANCEL, with the COIL HELD STILL (so as not to be detecting any "signal" other than pure EMI interference while the noice-cancel process is underway...)
Steve
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 01, 2023 04:48PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 239 |
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 01, 2023 05:57PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,408 |
midalake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My habit has always been to noise cancel over wais
> t high holding very still.
Sounds like you are good to go; I usually noise cancel about a foot off the ground, with coil "still," but never really thought about HOW important it was to "do it properly." In other words, I never thought about the idea that when the machine is performing the noise-cancel process, ANY received signal will be dealt with by the unit as if it were an EMI signal to be mitigated (which could obviously confuse the machine into choosing the WRONG noise-cancel channel).
Steve
-------------------------------------------------------
> My habit has always been to noise cancel over wais
> t high holding very still.
Sounds like you are good to go; I usually noise cancel about a foot off the ground, with coil "still," but never really thought about HOW important it was to "do it properly." In other words, I never thought about the idea that when the machine is performing the noise-cancel process, ANY received signal will be dealt with by the unit as if it were an EMI signal to be mitigated (which could obviously confuse the machine into choosing the WRONG noise-cancel channel).
Steve
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 02, 2023 01:52AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 10,071 |
What Manticore likes the best.....for EMI Noise Cancel is.......,,,,,,,,,,,, hold the coil about 16" above the ground (and parallel to the ground)....... and COMPLETELY STILL . , . , . , . , . , . , . then perform a LONG PRESS.
If you watch calabash's latest deep silver coin test-garden video..... you will notice that Manticore ....... ((((out of 19 available Noise Cancel channels))))....... would bounce/toggle between 3 Noise Cancel channels. It would land on one (of the 3) best channel. I can see/tell that Manticore is not happy. The 3 Noise Cancel channels that the unit was toggling between...... is because = There were three TOTALLY DIFFERENT sources of EMI....... with differing frequency and amplitude. While calabash's Manticore was 'locking on' to one specific channel........ there were 2 Noise Cancel channels that were unable to be employed.....and were severe EMI offenders; subsequently, NOT mitigated for those OTHER EMI-offending frequencies. Sooooooooo......... he could only run Sens on '22' in his yard/test-garden. , . , . , severely hindering performance.
Chris brings up a good point about Nokta Legend. . . . . and silent EMI. Lets say you are hunting a area... whereby..........say: 5 of the available Noise Cancel channels are VERY quiet. Very stable. It is a near-guarantee that ONE of the Noise Cancel channels are: 'best choice'. This would also CLEARLY make for a case whereby....... the other 4 remaining quiet Noise Cancel channels will indeed provide a lower level of overall performance...... UNSUSPECTINGLY. This is one of the purest definitions/examples of : SILENT EMI.
Is Nokta Legend more susceptible to Silent EMI? YES! Is this problem 'exclusive' to Legend = NO!!! Don't blame Legend! ALL detectors of ANY flavor/brand.........that do not have LONG PRESS....... WILL encounter Silent EMI.
On Manticore...... a LONG PRESS Noise Cancel WILL indeed find the BEST Noise Cancel channel........ even out of the quietest ones!
BUT........ even though Manticore DID select the true: "BEST" Noise Cancel channel. . . . . . . . don't think for one moment.......... that SILENT EMI no longer exists!
If you watch calabash's latest deep silver coin test-garden video..... you will notice that Manticore ....... ((((out of 19 available Noise Cancel channels))))....... would bounce/toggle between 3 Noise Cancel channels. It would land on one (of the 3) best channel. I can see/tell that Manticore is not happy. The 3 Noise Cancel channels that the unit was toggling between...... is because = There were three TOTALLY DIFFERENT sources of EMI....... with differing frequency and amplitude. While calabash's Manticore was 'locking on' to one specific channel........ there were 2 Noise Cancel channels that were unable to be employed.....and were severe EMI offenders; subsequently, NOT mitigated for those OTHER EMI-offending frequencies. Sooooooooo......... he could only run Sens on '22' in his yard/test-garden. , . , . , severely hindering performance.
Chris brings up a good point about Nokta Legend. . . . . and silent EMI. Lets say you are hunting a area... whereby..........say: 5 of the available Noise Cancel channels are VERY quiet. Very stable. It is a near-guarantee that ONE of the Noise Cancel channels are: 'best choice'. This would also CLEARLY make for a case whereby....... the other 4 remaining quiet Noise Cancel channels will indeed provide a lower level of overall performance...... UNSUSPECTINGLY. This is one of the purest definitions/examples of : SILENT EMI.
Is Nokta Legend more susceptible to Silent EMI? YES! Is this problem 'exclusive' to Legend = NO!!! Don't blame Legend! ALL detectors of ANY flavor/brand.........that do not have LONG PRESS....... WILL encounter Silent EMI.
On Manticore...... a LONG PRESS Noise Cancel WILL indeed find the BEST Noise Cancel channel........ even out of the quietest ones!
BUT........ even though Manticore DID select the true: "BEST" Noise Cancel channel. . . . . . . . don't think for one moment.......... that SILENT EMI no longer exists!
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 02, 2023 02:28AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 10,071 |
I am STRUGGLING to find time to answer/finish my beach hunting techniques. Let me see how long I can type...... (before interruption):
1. DRY SAND: I use an entirely different Mode for dry sand hunting....... as compared to wet-salt hunting. All Terrain Low Conductors. Ground Bal on '0'. Recovery Speed 2...... Highest stable Sens setting....... then LONG PRESS Noise Cancel...... then Highest Sens setting AGAIN. Nothing notched out. ----- Upper 7, Lower 4. Iron Volume: 2. Volume 25 (for my particular type of wired headphones).
2. DAMP SAND
3. WET SAND
4. IN-THE-SPLASH
5. IN THE WATER
I start in the WET SAND ...... about in the middle of the slope. Beach Low Conductors Mode. ---Audio: Prospecting. ---Response Speed '4'. ---Volume 25. Iron Volume 25. ---Upper 4, Lower 0. Tracking: OFF. ---Sens as high as middle-of-wet-slope allows. ---Ground Balance close to the waters edge. ---NOTHING Notched.
These settings are what I call my "bench". This is my base-reference settings..... unto which I ALWAYS try to 'return' to. I have also concluded that I STAY in Beach Low Conductors Mode for the ENTIRE beach.
When I transition from the WET SAND..... to the DAMP SAND...... I raise (and hold) the coil about a full inch above the sand (for reasons of maintaining stability). When I turn around....and head down the slope....and transition from the DAMP SAND... back into the WET SAND.... I then drop the coil down to about 2mm above the sand. When I am about to transition from the WET SAND and head into the: IN-THE-SPLASH...... I quick-tap drop Sens about 5 points. As I transition from IN-THE-SPLASH..... and head to: IN THE WATER....... I will raise Sens 1 (maybe 2) points higher.
If I intend to hunt ONLY/EXCLUSIVELY: IN THE WATER....... I will indeed use Beach Seawater Mode..... with a Recovery Speed of '4'...... and Sens as high as possible; yet, just into the hairy-edge of stability/instability.
I ALWAYS use Audio: PROSPECTING ......on the beach. NEVER any other tone options......... because.......... it is SOOOOOO ""telling"" of every aberration........... VS........... actual target! Mega audio-intel.
1. DRY SAND: I use an entirely different Mode for dry sand hunting....... as compared to wet-salt hunting. All Terrain Low Conductors. Ground Bal on '0'. Recovery Speed 2...... Highest stable Sens setting....... then LONG PRESS Noise Cancel...... then Highest Sens setting AGAIN. Nothing notched out. ----- Upper 7, Lower 4. Iron Volume: 2. Volume 25 (for my particular type of wired headphones).
2. DAMP SAND
3. WET SAND
4. IN-THE-SPLASH
5. IN THE WATER
I start in the WET SAND ...... about in the middle of the slope. Beach Low Conductors Mode. ---Audio: Prospecting. ---Response Speed '4'. ---Volume 25. Iron Volume 25. ---Upper 4, Lower 0. Tracking: OFF. ---Sens as high as middle-of-wet-slope allows. ---Ground Balance close to the waters edge. ---NOTHING Notched.
These settings are what I call my "bench". This is my base-reference settings..... unto which I ALWAYS try to 'return' to. I have also concluded that I STAY in Beach Low Conductors Mode for the ENTIRE beach.
When I transition from the WET SAND..... to the DAMP SAND...... I raise (and hold) the coil about a full inch above the sand (for reasons of maintaining stability). When I turn around....and head down the slope....and transition from the DAMP SAND... back into the WET SAND.... I then drop the coil down to about 2mm above the sand. When I am about to transition from the WET SAND and head into the: IN-THE-SPLASH...... I quick-tap drop Sens about 5 points. As I transition from IN-THE-SPLASH..... and head to: IN THE WATER....... I will raise Sens 1 (maybe 2) points higher.
If I intend to hunt ONLY/EXCLUSIVELY: IN THE WATER....... I will indeed use Beach Seawater Mode..... with a Recovery Speed of '4'...... and Sens as high as possible; yet, just into the hairy-edge of stability/instability.
I ALWAYS use Audio: PROSPECTING ......on the beach. NEVER any other tone options......... because.......... it is SOOOOOO ""telling"" of every aberration........... VS........... actual target! Mega audio-intel.
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 02, 2023 08:00PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 86 |
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 02, 2023 10:13PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 10,071 |
While I have a few minutes...... I'm starting to solidify some real-World performance data:
Manticore Ferrous Limits Upper = 8 & Lower = 3......is...... EQX F2: '0' equivalent. On paper...... the numbers are slightly different; yet, in the real-World Upper 8 & Lower 3....... produces nearly identical real dirt performance resultant.
((( Just a: FYI ))).
Manticore Ferrous Limits Upper = 8 & Lower = 3......is...... EQX F2: '0' equivalent. On paper...... the numbers are slightly different; yet, in the real-World Upper 8 & Lower 3....... produces nearly identical real dirt performance resultant.
((( Just a: FYI ))).
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 03, 2023 03:28PM |
Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 35 |
Hi Tom,
I took my manticore for the first time to the beach yesterday in New England. I don't go to the beach too often (hour+ drive) but when I do I usually only dig good sounding targets.
I hunted mostly the low tide wet sand line using low conductors beach mode, I used normal audio theme but when I got a good sounding target I switched to prospecting audio and checked and I could hear a lot of the extra audio info you mentioned. For deep targets it was helpful in identifying if it was actually a good target or just falsing iron.
Towards the end of my hunt I did some dry sand using low conductors all terrain mode, ground tracking turned on, recovery speed 4, long press noise cancel, all metal mode off. I noticed that while holding the detector still I could hear some emi (sens=26) but as I was swinging it went away, so I decided to increase the sensitivity more and more. I noticed obviously that emi was a lot worse holding the detector still even after long press noise cancelling but when I was swinging I couldn't hear the emi anymore. When swinging there was alot of signals started showing up in the far left dark regions of the target trace, almost as if all the emi signals were moving to that area as I was swinging. This was happening when running the sensitivity between 30-35, even at 35 I didn't hear emi while swinging. I unfortunately didn't bury and coins to test if I could actually hear good targets while running it at 30-35 as I was already out for 5 hours and dead tired at that point.
What are your thoughts regarding what was happening? Would running it like this actually be viable or would this cause other issues I'm not thinking of?
Thanks for your help!
I took my manticore for the first time to the beach yesterday in New England. I don't go to the beach too often (hour+ drive) but when I do I usually only dig good sounding targets.
I hunted mostly the low tide wet sand line using low conductors beach mode, I used normal audio theme but when I got a good sounding target I switched to prospecting audio and checked and I could hear a lot of the extra audio info you mentioned. For deep targets it was helpful in identifying if it was actually a good target or just falsing iron.
Towards the end of my hunt I did some dry sand using low conductors all terrain mode, ground tracking turned on, recovery speed 4, long press noise cancel, all metal mode off. I noticed that while holding the detector still I could hear some emi (sens=26) but as I was swinging it went away, so I decided to increase the sensitivity more and more. I noticed obviously that emi was a lot worse holding the detector still even after long press noise cancelling but when I was swinging I couldn't hear the emi anymore. When swinging there was alot of signals started showing up in the far left dark regions of the target trace, almost as if all the emi signals were moving to that area as I was swinging. This was happening when running the sensitivity between 30-35, even at 35 I didn't hear emi while swinging. I unfortunately didn't bury and coins to test if I could actually hear good targets while running it at 30-35 as I was already out for 5 hours and dead tired at that point.
What are your thoughts regarding what was happening? Would running it like this actually be viable or would this cause other issues I'm not thinking of?
Thanks for your help!
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 03, 2023 04:35PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 10,071 |
GTS
...... yes.,.,.,.,., you're running Sens into the EMI. Even though whilst sweeping the coil....... the ground minerals/signal are overpowering the EMI.......and you can no longer hear the EMI . , . , . , . , . , . , it still exists. Try a Recovery Speed of '2' next time....... and see if this allows you to bump a Sens of 26....up to (say) Sens 28. THEN perform a LONG PRESS Noise Cancel.
I'm surprised you did not run Audio in "Prospecting" !!! .... whilst on the wet-slope.
SRT
...... yes.,.,.,.,., you're running Sens into the EMI. Even though whilst sweeping the coil....... the ground minerals/signal are overpowering the EMI.......and you can no longer hear the EMI . , . , . , . , . , . , it still exists. Try a Recovery Speed of '2' next time....... and see if this allows you to bump a Sens of 26....up to (say) Sens 28. THEN perform a LONG PRESS Noise Cancel.
I'm surprised you did not run Audio in "Prospecting" !!! .... whilst on the wet-slope.
SRT
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 03, 2023 09:02PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 86 |
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GTS
>
> ...... yes.,.,.,.,., you're running Sens into the
> EMI. Even though whilst sweeping the coil....... t
> he ground minerals/signal are overpowering the EMI
> .......and you can no longer hear the EMI . , . ,
> . , . , . , . , it still exists. Try a Recovery Sp
> eed of '2' next time....... and see if this allows
> you to bump a Sens of 26....up to (say) Sens 28. T
> HEN perform a LONG PRESS Noise Cancel.
> I'm surprised you did not run Audio in "Prospectin
> g" !!! .... whilst on the wet-slope.
>
> SRT
Running prospector audio (same as audio in the 800 gold mode?) seems like a steep learning curve. The 800 gold audio is so hard to listen to at the salt beach.
Is the sound of prospector same as gold mode in the 800?
Ant suggestions on how to manage the continuous data sound?
At this point i am in the ‘bite your lip and learn’ it state of mind.
Regards
-------------------------------------------------------
> GTS
>
> ...... yes.,.,.,.,., you're running Sens into the
> EMI. Even though whilst sweeping the coil....... t
> he ground minerals/signal are overpowering the EMI
> .......and you can no longer hear the EMI . , . ,
> . , . , . , . , it still exists. Try a Recovery Sp
> eed of '2' next time....... and see if this allows
> you to bump a Sens of 26....up to (say) Sens 28. T
> HEN perform a LONG PRESS Noise Cancel.
> I'm surprised you did not run Audio in "Prospectin
> g" !!! .... whilst on the wet-slope.
>
> SRT
Running prospector audio (same as audio in the 800 gold mode?) seems like a steep learning curve. The 800 gold audio is so hard to listen to at the salt beach.
Is the sound of prospector same as gold mode in the 800?
Ant suggestions on how to manage the continuous data sound?
At this point i am in the ‘bite your lip and learn’ it state of mind.
Regards
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 04, 2023 06:11AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 10,071 |
A few things.
First....... when Audio Theme is placed in Prospecting audio........ it IS different from the EQX gold mode. The Prospecting audio goes UP in pitch when you pass over a non-ferrous target. And goes DOWN in pitch when passing over ferrous. The ID still remains fully functional....... including the 2D graph.
Secondly....... the wet-slope is usually less trash. Less/sparse targets........ so Prospecting audio is not fatiguing at all.
Third....... Prospecting is very 'telling'........ with size, shape, breadth/width of target.
First....... when Audio Theme is placed in Prospecting audio........ it IS different from the EQX gold mode. The Prospecting audio goes UP in pitch when you pass over a non-ferrous target. And goes DOWN in pitch when passing over ferrous. The ID still remains fully functional....... including the 2D graph.
Secondly....... the wet-slope is usually less trash. Less/sparse targets........ so Prospecting audio is not fatiguing at all.
Third....... Prospecting is very 'telling'........ with size, shape, breadth/width of target.
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 04, 2023 06:36AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 86 |
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few things.
> First....... when Audio Theme is placed in Prospec
> ting audio........ it IS different from the EQX go
> ld mode. The Prospecting audio goes UP in pitch wh
> en you pass over a non-ferrous target. And goes DO
> WN in pitch when passing over ferrous. The ID stil
> l remains fully functional....... including the 2D
> graph.
> Secondly....... the wet-slope is usually less tras
> h. Less/sparse targets........ so Prospecting audi
> o is not fatiguing at all.
> Third....... Prospecting is very 'telling'........
> with size, shape, breadth/width of target.
Thanks again Tom, I am excited to hear and understand this!
Can’t wait,
All the best.
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few things.
> First....... when Audio Theme is placed in Prospec
> ting audio........ it IS different from the EQX go
> ld mode. The Prospecting audio goes UP in pitch wh
> en you pass over a non-ferrous target. And goes DO
> WN in pitch when passing over ferrous. The ID stil
> l remains fully functional....... including the 2D
> graph.
> Secondly....... the wet-slope is usually less tras
> h. Less/sparse targets........ so Prospecting audi
> o is not fatiguing at all.
> Third....... Prospecting is very 'telling'........
> with size, shape, breadth/width of target.
Thanks again Tom, I am excited to hear and understand this!
Can’t wait,
All the best.
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 06, 2023 02:55PM |
Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 5 |
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 06, 2023 09:26PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 94 |
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 07, 2023 03:04PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 90 |
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 07, 2023 06:34PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 3,592 |
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While I have a few minutes...... I'm starting to solidify some real-World performance data:
>
> Manticore Ferrous Limits Upper = 8 & Lower = 3......is...... EQX F2: '0' equivalent. On paper......the numbers are slightly different; yet, in the real-World Upper 8 & Lower 3....... produces nearly
> identical real dirt performance resultant.
>
> ((( Just a: FYI ))).
Thanks for sharing this Tom, I was going to ask about the equivalent F2/0 setting.
After setting F2/0 on the EQX800 at a site that TomCA and myself had hunted many, many times before, I dug a rare U.S. $1 gold coin that was 7" deep and banged in as a solid 11. Fully expected it to be a .22 shell
-------------------------------------------------------
> While I have a few minutes...... I'm starting to solidify some real-World performance data:
>
> Manticore Ferrous Limits Upper = 8 & Lower = 3......is...... EQX F2: '0' equivalent. On paper......the numbers are slightly different; yet, in the real-World Upper 8 & Lower 3....... produces nearly
> identical real dirt performance resultant.
>
> ((( Just a: FYI ))).
Thanks for sharing this Tom, I was going to ask about the equivalent F2/0 setting.
After setting F2/0 on the EQX800 at a site that TomCA and myself had hunted many, many times before, I dug a rare U.S. $1 gold coin that was 7" deep and banged in as a solid 11. Fully expected it to be a .22 shell
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 07, 2023 10:04PM |
Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 5 |
First outing with the manticore, albeit only 4hrs.
The chosen site has known history to bronze age period however the majority of finds date from early 1800s onwards. It has electricity pylons traversing the middle of the site and the mineralisation/iron content is I believe medium. The site has been detected routinely for the past 3-4 years; the Nox800 would run hot at around sensitivity 20, field 1, all-metal, 50 tones.
The manticore was set up as follows:
All Terrain High Conductors
Audio theme-Normal
2 region-All tones
Ferrous volume 1
Ferrous limits 9/3
All Metal
Recovery 2
Sensitivity 25
After performing a LONG noise cancel (thanks guys)
I managed to raise the sensitivity to 28 with only minimal chatter.
Observations: Whilst sweeping the coil the TT routinely indicated a black fuzz line at the top of the Ferrous band. Is this indicating the level of mineralisation/iron in the ground? OK, having re-read the user guide, this does appear to be the feedback from the ground mineralisation.
The recovery speed is pretty phenomenal even in setting 2.
Quite a bit of falsing, maybe due to excessive sensitivity? Once again, the user guide provides this information.
In some occasions there appeared to be signs of iron wrap, with some the signal showing at the 98/99 region of the TT on the non-ferrous line.
Overall an enjoyable session, a number of artefacts, musket balls (1700s), cup weight (1800s), clan Fraser (Lovat) button (1700s) and 6x old british pound coins (1980s).
Unfortunately all the finds were only between 4-6" deep, but this is no reflection on the manticore.
The much wider audio/VDI range will take a bit of experience to fully interpret correctly.
early days.
If in doubt, read the manual.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2023 02:09PM by rovhunter001.
The chosen site has known history to bronze age period however the majority of finds date from early 1800s onwards. It has electricity pylons traversing the middle of the site and the mineralisation/iron content is I believe medium. The site has been detected routinely for the past 3-4 years; the Nox800 would run hot at around sensitivity 20, field 1, all-metal, 50 tones.
The manticore was set up as follows:
All Terrain High Conductors
Audio theme-Normal
2 region-All tones
Ferrous volume 1
Ferrous limits 9/3
All Metal
Recovery 2
Sensitivity 25
After performing a LONG noise cancel (thanks guys)
I managed to raise the sensitivity to 28 with only minimal chatter.
Observations: Whilst sweeping the coil the TT routinely indicated a black fuzz line at the top of the Ferrous band. Is this indicating the level of mineralisation/iron in the ground? OK, having re-read the user guide, this does appear to be the feedback from the ground mineralisation.
The recovery speed is pretty phenomenal even in setting 2.
Quite a bit of falsing, maybe due to excessive sensitivity? Once again, the user guide provides this information.
In some occasions there appeared to be signs of iron wrap, with some the signal showing at the 98/99 region of the TT on the non-ferrous line.
Overall an enjoyable session, a number of artefacts, musket balls (1700s), cup weight (1800s), clan Fraser (Lovat) button (1700s) and 6x old british pound coins (1980s).
Unfortunately all the finds were only between 4-6" deep, but this is no reflection on the manticore.
The much wider audio/VDI range will take a bit of experience to fully interpret correctly.
early days.
If in doubt, read the manual.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2023 02:09PM by rovhunter001.
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 08, 2023 01:41AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 94 |
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 08, 2023 02:33PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 10,071 |
Brian......... A One Dollar $1 U.S. gold coin is the #2 most difficult coin to detect/find. , . , . , . , . , . , but/yet; THE most easiest coin to lose....... due to its tiny size.
The U.S. 3-Cent Nickel is the #1 MOST difficult coin to find.......... due to its conductivity. On a EQX...... they ID as a '7'.
Jesse.......for fairly low mineralization, in-the-woods hunting....... with Max depth & best ID abilities at depth.......try this:
All Terrain High Conductors --- (((yes.... "High Conductors" for lower conductive relics)))
Recovery Speed = 2
Sens = 28
Volume = 25
Iron Volume = 2
Ferrous Limits Upper = 7
Ferrous Limits Lower = 3
Iron = ON --- (((you need to hear any/all iron))) [[[And.....I like the Iron shortcut hotkey to be selected & set on the sidebar.......as a sidebar shortcut]]]
Nothing Notched Out
1-Region All Tones
Audio Theme = Normal .....with: Profile = Simple (((This way..... faint/weak/low-Volume signals don't get missed)))
After setting all of this up........ THEN perform a LONGPRESS Noise Cancel.......and see to it that the unit settles down on 1 Noise Cancel channel. (Or........at maximum..........the unit is toggling between 2 Noise Cancel channels).
Start with these settings. Later........ you may wish to tweak/customize to your personal preference settings........OR......... there may be some 'unforeseen' condition that I (we) may not foresee....... that is happening in your neck-of-the-woods.,.,.,., that needs to be compensated for.
You might even be able to jump Sens up into the low 30's IF iron isn't too bad...... IF mineralization isn't too bad.......IF EMI doesn't exist.
rovhunter.......... Do you have Iron notched 'in'......... so you can hear iron??? ((Even if you have the Volume on iron....turned down quite a bit))???
The U.S. 3-Cent Nickel is the #1 MOST difficult coin to find.......... due to its conductivity. On a EQX...... they ID as a '7'.
Jesse.......for fairly low mineralization, in-the-woods hunting....... with Max depth & best ID abilities at depth.......try this:
All Terrain High Conductors --- (((yes.... "High Conductors" for lower conductive relics)))
Recovery Speed = 2
Sens = 28
Volume = 25
Iron Volume = 2
Ferrous Limits Upper = 7
Ferrous Limits Lower = 3
Iron = ON --- (((you need to hear any/all iron))) [[[And.....I like the Iron shortcut hotkey to be selected & set on the sidebar.......as a sidebar shortcut]]]
Nothing Notched Out
1-Region All Tones
Audio Theme = Normal .....with: Profile = Simple (((This way..... faint/weak/low-Volume signals don't get missed)))
After setting all of this up........ THEN perform a LONGPRESS Noise Cancel.......and see to it that the unit settles down on 1 Noise Cancel channel. (Or........at maximum..........the unit is toggling between 2 Noise Cancel channels).
Start with these settings. Later........ you may wish to tweak/customize to your personal preference settings........OR......... there may be some 'unforeseen' condition that I (we) may not foresee....... that is happening in your neck-of-the-woods.,.,.,., that needs to be compensated for.
You might even be able to jump Sens up into the low 30's IF iron isn't too bad...... IF mineralization isn't too bad.......IF EMI doesn't exist.
rovhunter.......... Do you have Iron notched 'in'......... so you can hear iron??? ((Even if you have the Volume on iron....turned down quite a bit))???
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 08, 2023 02:44PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 10,071 |
Something else I must say/impart:
Manticore has software engineering controls in place.......... (((above-and-beyond LONGPRESS Noise Cancel feature))).,.,.,.,.,.,.,., that reduce EMI a few additional increments..... behind-the-scenes ---hardwired--- ...... engineered/built within its Operating System. This is one of the: "A Generation beyond" EQX attributes.
The LONGPRESS feature...... enhances and solidifies the "Generation beyond" advancement-progression.
Manticore has software engineering controls in place.......... (((above-and-beyond LONGPRESS Noise Cancel feature))).,.,.,.,.,.,.,., that reduce EMI a few additional increments..... behind-the-scenes ---hardwired--- ...... engineered/built within its Operating System. This is one of the: "A Generation beyond" EQX attributes.
The LONGPRESS feature...... enhances and solidifies the "Generation beyond" advancement-progression.
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 08, 2023 04:59PM |
Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 5 |
Hi All
I have been running the Manticore in All Metal, with the iron volume set at 1; similar to how I ran the Nox800. Ran some air tests on big corroded iron that rang up at VDI 45 when the coil was approximately 20+" above the target; the TT indicated an uneven 'blob' on the non-ferrous mid point. Switching to 10khz single frequency ( as per the Nox800) significantly dropped the VDI number to the 20s.
Next time out I will run the recovery speed a little higher to combat the mineralisation. So far, very impressed with this latest minelab edition.
I have been running the Manticore in All Metal, with the iron volume set at 1; similar to how I ran the Nox800. Ran some air tests on big corroded iron that rang up at VDI 45 when the coil was approximately 20+" above the target; the TT indicated an uneven 'blob' on the non-ferrous mid point. Switching to 10khz single frequency ( as per the Nox800) significantly dropped the VDI number to the 20s.
Next time out I will run the recovery speed a little higher to combat the mineralisation. So far, very impressed with this latest minelab edition.
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 08, 2023 10:11PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 90 |
Thanks for the settings Tom!!!I will let you know how it's works out for me.I will be taking it out to strictly cw camps and long gone colonial plantations emi isn't a problem at 70 percent of the places I hunt and the soil is about as mild as it can possibly be In the lowcountry it's all mostly sugar sand.
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 08, 2023 10:12PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 90 |
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 09, 2023 12:00AM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 3,592 |
Thanks Tom. From what I've observed, the $5 U.S. gold coins were the work horses, heavily circulated at certain times in U.S. history, and not so heavily at other times. But these $5 coins are by far the most frequent found compared to other denominations.
On the "in-the-woods hunting" setup you suggested below, is that a good baseline setup for for general relic hunting (modifying if/as needed to deal with iron/mineralization/EMI/etc.)?? If you have thoughts on a more "aggressive" relic program I'm all ears. We deal with some heavy iron, mostly sea of nails and that flat, rusty tin both from old dwellings as well as soldered tin-can canned goods, which were popular at the time. Their discarded remains typically are scattered throughout the types of sites we visit.
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian......... A One Dollar $1 U.S. gold coin is t
> he #2 most difficult coin to detect/find. , . , .
> , . , . , . , but/yet; THE most easiest coin to lo
> se....... due to its tiny size.
> The U.S. 3-Cent Nickel is the #1 MOST diffi
> cult coin to find.......... due to its conductivit
> y. On a EQX...... they ID as a '7'.
>
> Jesse.......for fairly low mineralization, in-the-
> woods hunting....... with Max depth & best ID abil
> ities at depth.......try this:
>
> All Terrain High Conductors --- (((yes.... "High
> Conductors" for lower conductive relics)))
> Recovery Speed = 2
> Sens = 28
> Volume = 25
> Iron Volume = 2
> Ferrous Limits Upper = 7
> Ferrous Limits Lower = 3
> Iron = ON --- (((you need to hear any/all iron))
> ) [[[And.....I like the Iron shortcut hotkey to be
> selected & set on the sidebar.......as a sidebar s
> hortcut]]]
> Nothing Notched Out
> 1-Region All Tones
> Audio Theme = Normal .....with: Profile = Simple
> (((This way..... faint/weak/low-Volume signals don
> 't get missed)))
> After setting all of this up........ THEN perform
> a LONGPRESS Noise Cancel.......and see to it that
> the unit settles down on 1 Noise Cancel channel. (
> Or........at maximum..........the unit is toggling
> between 2 Noise Cancel channels).
>
> Start with these settings. Later........ you may w
> ish to tweak/customize to your personal preference
> settings........OR......... there may be some 'unf
> oreseen' condition that I (we) may not foresee....
> ... that is happening in your neck-of-the-woods.,.
> ,.,., that needs to be compensated for.
> You might even be able to jump Sens up into the lo
> w 30's IF iron isn't too bad...... IF mineralizati
> on isn't too bad.......IF EMI doesn't exist.
>
On the "in-the-woods hunting" setup you suggested below, is that a good baseline setup for for general relic hunting (modifying if/as needed to deal with iron/mineralization/EMI/etc.)?? If you have thoughts on a more "aggressive" relic program I'm all ears. We deal with some heavy iron, mostly sea of nails and that flat, rusty tin both from old dwellings as well as soldered tin-can canned goods, which were popular at the time. Their discarded remains typically are scattered throughout the types of sites we visit.
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian......... A One Dollar $1 U.S. gold coin is t
> he #2 most difficult coin to detect/find. , . , .
> , . , . , . , but/yet; THE most easiest coin to lo
> se....... due to its tiny size.
> The U.S. 3-Cent Nickel is the #1 MOST diffi
> cult coin to find.......... due to its conductivit
> y. On a EQX...... they ID as a '7'.
>
> Jesse.......for fairly low mineralization, in-the-
> woods hunting....... with Max depth & best ID abil
> ities at depth.......try this:
>
> All Terrain High Conductors --- (((yes.... "High
> Conductors" for lower conductive relics)))
> Recovery Speed = 2
> Sens = 28
> Volume = 25
> Iron Volume = 2
> Ferrous Limits Upper = 7
> Ferrous Limits Lower = 3
> Iron = ON --- (((you need to hear any/all iron))
> ) [[[And.....I like the Iron shortcut hotkey to be
> selected & set on the sidebar.......as a sidebar s
> hortcut]]]
> Nothing Notched Out
> 1-Region All Tones
> Audio Theme = Normal .....with: Profile = Simple
> (((This way..... faint/weak/low-Volume signals don
> 't get missed)))
> After setting all of this up........ THEN perform
> a LONGPRESS Noise Cancel.......and see to it that
> the unit settles down on 1 Noise Cancel channel. (
> Or........at maximum..........the unit is toggling
> between 2 Noise Cancel channels).
>
> Start with these settings. Later........ you may w
> ish to tweak/customize to your personal preference
> settings........OR......... there may be some 'unf
> oreseen' condition that I (we) may not foresee....
> ... that is happening in your neck-of-the-woods.,.
> ,.,., that needs to be compensated for.
> You might even be able to jump Sens up into the lo
> w 30's IF iron isn't too bad...... IF mineralizati
> on isn't too bad.......IF EMI doesn't exist.
>
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 09, 2023 12:02AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 86 |
@NASA-TOM
FYI:
Reported from Germany
“ My friend and I, we both have the Manticore and both detectors will NOT automatic ground balance in all the beach modes.
Even if I change the values manually the detector does not GB.
It seems to be a software problem.
In the other modes GB works fine.
Andy from Germany”
FYI:
Reported from Germany
“ My friend and I, we both have the Manticore and both detectors will NOT automatic ground balance in all the beach modes.
Even if I change the values manually the detector does not GB.
It seems to be a software problem.
In the other modes GB works fine.
Andy from Germany”
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 09, 2023 12:07AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 90 |
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Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE January 09, 2023 02:02AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 10,071 |
Brian......... your biggest contender in YOUR locale for relic hunting .... IS that rusted tin! Flat sheet-steel. A nightmare. . . . . to say the least.
My recommendations is to start with the settings (listed above)....... except a Recovery Speed of 4.......and a lower Sensitivity; say = 21. Sweep the coil over a bunch of different pieces of your SPECIFIC flat/sheet steel. LOOK AT YOUR 2D GRAPH!!!!!........and see...... get an overall 'aggregate' of where the bulk of it hits. THEN adjust your Ferrous Limits LOWER........ so as to capture most of the sheet/flat tin.
Jesse........ Yes...... a 11" coil in carpets of nails is not very efficient. Accessory coils to follow!
Floridason (Germany friends)......... are you pressing AND holding the G.B. softkey whilst bobbing to coil? Try bobbing the coil multiple times from 12" down to 5" at first...... whilst continuously pressing the G.B. softkey. If this works...... then bob the coil closer to the wet-salt sand.
NEVER try to ground balance to DRY sand!!!! ((( This is akin to Grnd Balancing to glass/silica!!! )))
Will their Manticore's GROUND TRACK....... the wet-salt?
My recommendations is to start with the settings (listed above)....... except a Recovery Speed of 4.......and a lower Sensitivity; say = 21. Sweep the coil over a bunch of different pieces of your SPECIFIC flat/sheet steel. LOOK AT YOUR 2D GRAPH!!!!!........and see...... get an overall 'aggregate' of where the bulk of it hits. THEN adjust your Ferrous Limits LOWER........ so as to capture most of the sheet/flat tin.
Jesse........ Yes...... a 11" coil in carpets of nails is not very efficient. Accessory coils to follow!
Floridason (Germany friends)......... are you pressing AND holding the G.B. softkey whilst bobbing to coil? Try bobbing the coil multiple times from 12" down to 5" at first...... whilst continuously pressing the G.B. softkey. If this works...... then bob the coil closer to the wet-salt sand.
NEVER try to ground balance to DRY sand!!!! ((( This is akin to Grnd Balancing to glass/silica!!! )))
Will their Manticore's GROUND TRACK....... the wet-salt?
