MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE

David..... you're welcome.
Do you know if calabash ever had a chance to drop Recovery Speed to: '3' (down from '4') on the beach yet?......and see how it responds to very low conductors......ie: gold? I think I asked/mentioned this....about 4 days ago. ((( No problem......if he has not had the chance yet )).

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> David..... you're welcome.
> Do you know if calabash ever had a chance to drop
> Recovery Speed to: '3' (down from '4') on the beac
> h yet?......and see how it responds to very low co
> nductors......ie: gold? I think I asked/mentioned
> this....about 4 days ago. ((( No problem......if h
> e has not had the chance yet )).


Thus far Calabash has NOT tested/compared Manticore to Deus 2 using beach low conductors speed 3 in wet salt sand.
This will be done this week hopefully.
Also I got to thinking dry sand testing has not been done using either Deus 2 or Manticore.
So Calabsh will be comparing Manticore, Deus 2 and EQX 900 in dry sand on gold ring and gold hoop earring for depth. Speeds 3 and 4 will be looked at using Manticore. I will be curious how high SENS use Calabash can run Manticore in dry sand using low conductors program. And see just how deep this rig is,

Question. What modes does he need to use on Eqx 900 when checking each (hoop earring and gold ring) for max depth performance in dry sand.. Is it the same mode to be used to test? Or different modes per item?

Anyways I will relay your suggestions and you can expect video links soon showing the tests/ comparisons posted in this thread.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2023 04:31AM by tnsharpshooter.

Video- Lady named Suzie of UK takes her Manticore on its maiden voyage.

[m.youtube.com]

TNSS....... for the dry sand with EQX-900.,.,.,.,., I would recommend Field Mode-2..... and a TRR of: 2 or 3 or 4.

For Manticore and Deus-2....... for amusement ONLY..... you could try the Goldfields on both units....in the dry sand. (((This would be Program-8 on Deus-2))). Keep in mind......these are ALL-METAL Modes!!!......and have no audio ID!!!......even though the ID screens will delineate between Fe & non-Fe. You could never hunt the dry sand in these Modes; yet, it makes for a interesting test. These Modes on both units would be akin to hunting a carpet-of-nails with a all-metal gold prospecting Pulse Induction unit! ---NOT effective..... unless a woman has it narrowed down to a 3-foot by 3-foot square of dry sand.....where she lost her tiny (micro-jewelry) gold stud earring. STRICTLY for amusement..... you could also try Prospecting Mode-2 (speed: 2) on the EQX-900. THIS will be an: eye-opener!
Don't ever "HUNT" the dry sand.... in these Modes!


BUT...... what you are REALLY asking/looking for.....for maximum/effective utilization to hunt the dry sand IN - THE - REAL - WORLD would be =
Deus-2 = Program 3 Sensitive Full Tones
Manticore = All Terrain Low Conductors

If it is truly DRY sand...... manually set Ground Balance to '0'.............and.........you should be able to run Sens up into the mid-30's on Manticore. Do NOT use any form of 'Tracking' on either D2 or MC.
Recovery Speeds on EQX & Manticore...... are the same. I recommend a speed of 3. If targets are fairly sparse...... use a speed of 2. If the dry sand is quite trashy..... use a recovery speed of 4...... on both the EQX & Manticore.
For testing gold earring & ring.......... find a clean area of dry sand. Recovery Speed of 2 on EQX & MC. Reactivity Speed of 1 for Deus-2. Try and run Sens on 98 on D2. Try and run Sens on 33 or 34 on MC.

FYI = With Minelab products...... a speed of:
2 = 1 on the D2.
1 = 0.5 on the D2.
0 = 0 on the D2.

Hence; my recommendation (for testing purposes)..... is to have EQX & MC on a speed of '2'........ to comparably equivalate a speed of '1' on the Deus-2. (((You will see: WHY!!!)))
(((Deus-2 Speed of 2 is somewhat ~equiv~ to Minelabs speed of 3.....................................Deus: 2.5 ~equiv~ Minelab: 4 . , . , . , . , . , and........ knowing calabash.......this may be what he would feel "comfortable" hunting the real-World with. BUT......... when he sees/learns/experiences lower speeds; he may change his mind!!))).

During all of this testing............ if the dry sand is DAMP down around the 8" to 10" depth-range...... you will NOT be able to use these Modes on ANY of the detectors!!! Make sure to keep your powder DRY!

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok. Good to know. BUT........ is this the DRY sand
> ???

Just to close this topic out as resolved:

Yes, dry sand. And I, received a PM saying it was dry inland. And he now understands not to expect to GB in dry sand as you stated avove. So there is no problem with the GB feature, just a not understanding. You cleared it up perfectly.

Ok. Good to know......AND to have 'closure' !!! Otherwise......we were going to displace manpower INVESTIGATING this concern.,.,.,.,.,which........in turn.......... would decelerate us from putting our energies/manpower/time/resources/labor into = more engineering performance enhancements & improvements.

Video.
One test comparing Manticore to Deus 2. Both units with 11" coils.
Deus 2 using deep high conductor.
Manticore AT high conductors.
Elevated foil and clad dime.
Units run with and without foil notched.

[m.youtube.com]

Used mine for the first time today and managed to find a super deep savannah republican blues button that was beyond the depth my deus 2 could achieve.Thanks tom for the settings my machine already basically payed for itself in the first hour I ran it.

I will have a Manticore later this week. Hoping the 8x5.5 coil comes out soon and doesn't break the bank like a 9" D2 coil. EMI is the main draw to me. I hunt the same beaches that CD tests on and EMI isn't so bad along the NC beaches where he lives. Mainly cottages. When you get down to the tall buildings in the greater Myrtle Beach area it can be so bad you want to leave but then disappear like a switch was thrown. Going to be hard to put the D2 down for on the beach. I ran ant. up through shaft and put the teather on the controller. Feels really comfortable to swing.

Tom I will try the setting on the dry sand. Sensitive Full Tones! Yuk! The worst audio on The D2 to my ears. I tried Goldfield on dry sand and that lasted a minute. I run my D2 in the wet sand when EMI allows that let me dig too many tiny pop rivet heads at ridiculous depths on Beach sensitive so moved to Beach. The type of stuff I'm looking for it will hit. I use Pitch square audio. It is very informative for "cherry pickers" like me. Reactivity 1 to 1.5 audio 7 salt 8 iron volume 1 Sens 95. HH JR

Tom...Thanks for all the great information. I don't think this was mentioned...
When completely submerged in salt water, is it best to use tracking on (as the manual recommends), or just do an occasional auto GB? I always have that old school thought about using tracking and nulling out weak targets when crosschecking them. I am hunting Florida Gulf coast mainly. Thanks!

Video- comparing beach low conductors program to surf and seawater for possible unmasking potential in the wild detecting.

[m.youtube.com]

TNSS........ Great video demonstration........but I'm a little confused. Your foil/dime video contradicts calabash's foil/dime video. (Different settings)?

Jesse........ THAT'S the fulfillment of a: Dream-Come-True! Congrats!!!!!

ShovelNose........ Have to agree! Those Sensitive Full Tones sound 'tinny' ........and does take quite a bit of time to ascertain: "trained ears".

okara gold........... As far as the beach goes......especially in mineral-free Florida (except for alkali)........ IN-the-water is about the only place on the beach that I would possibly/actually utilize Ground Tracking. My "old school" gut still has me 'checking' (every once-in-a-while) via a manual Ground Balance whilst IN the water.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> okara gold........... As far as the beach goes....
> ..especially in mineral-free Florida (except for a
> lkali)........ IN-the-water is about the only plac
> e on the beach that I would possibly/actually util
> ize Ground Tracking. My "old school" gut still has
> me 'checking' (every once-in-a-while) via a manual
> Ground Balance whilst IN the water.

Great Thanks!

Video- hunting dry sand areas riddled with foil looking for gold rings.
[m.youtube.com]

TNSS........ Word to the wise: Most 'lost gold jewelry' is not a: ""big gold ring"".

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TNSS........ Word to the wise: Most 'lost gold jew
> elry' is not a: ""big gold ring"".


I've been saltwater hunting for quite a while, and to find a gold chain IN the water is a rare occurrence. Unless it's a big one... they hide from detection quite well.
On another note... I submerged the Manticore today in salt water for about 3 hours straight and no leaking problems at all. I am very confident in its IP 68 rating.

I asked a question a couple of days ago about saving patterns. I had read the manual but it wasn't clear to me what you could or couldn't save? Now after having the machine in my hands I will explain what I have found.

1- You can edit and save 4 ferrous limit patterns. These patterns are global.
2- You can customize 1 discrimination pattern for each search mode. This disc pattern is not global.
3. You can save 1 custom search mode to favorites

My critique is this -

Why not give us 4 global disc patterns - preset and custom 1,2,3 and 4 just like the ferrous limits? How about a "combine" feature?
Why limit it to just 4?
When you scroll to custom ferrous pattern 1,2,3 and 4 the front page image doesn't change showing you the pattern? You must open each one up to see the pattern.

I consider a discrimination pattern as being both ferrous and conductive disc patterns combined such as on an etrac
I would have liked to see the Manticore set up to easily migrate disc/ferrous patterns into any search mode you choose.

One other note......

I feel that ML seeing the by product of the height of the newly designed arm cuff made the claim the added height was for ergonomics. The same goes for tilting the hand grip forward a little more as well. The result is the new angle and added cuff height hasn't really changed the combined angle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2023 07:05PM by khouse.

khouse........ you are correct. Your requests are 'noted'....... and being reviewed. (You are not the only one to ask for this. You're not on an island)!

The good thing is....... if you custom-tailor EACH of the Modes........ ALL of them will remain in your customization status.,.,.,.,., even when you turn the unit 'OFF'. Even Ground Balance will be memorized ....for EACH individual Mode. BUT....... Sens & Volume will remain 'Global'......at what ever setting you had them on.....as you turned the unit 'OFF'.

okara............ I am anxious to hear (and I'm sure quite a few other detectorists)...... for data to start rolling in ...from the: fully submerged water hunters. THANKS for sharing your data!

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> khouse........ you are correct. Your requests are
> 'noted'....... and being reviewed. (You are not th
> e only one to ask for this. You're not on an islan
> d)!
>
> The good thing is....... if you custom-tailor EACH
> of the Modes........ ALL of them will remain in yo
> ur customization status.,.,.,.,., even when you tu
> rn the unit 'OFF'. Even Ground Balance will be mem
> orized ....for EACH individual Mode. BUT....... Se
> ns & Volume will remain 'Global'......at what ever
> setting you had them on.....as you turned the unit
> 'OFF'.
>
Thanks for the reply Tom.
> okara............ I am anxious to hear (and I'm su
> re quite a few other detectorists)...... for data
> to start rolling in ...from the: fully submerged w
> ater hunters. THANKS for sharing your data!

Something that crossed my mind (again). It takes about 7-hours to charge the MC from a completely dead battery. For me...... the real-World performance: more than justifies this (rather small) inconvenience. Well worth it.

I received my Manticore, and of all the many things I could say, one thing to say quickly that I don't think has gotten enough attention...

WHAT A TERRIFIC MENU SYSTEM!

Incredibly easy to navigate, intuitive, nothing hidden. Excellent!

Steve

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I received my Manticore, and of all the many thing
> s I could say, one thing to say quickly that I don
> 't think has gotten enough attention...
>
> WHAT A TERRIFIC MENU SYSTEM!
>
> Incredibly easy to navigate, intuitive, nothing hi
> dden. Excellent!
>
> Steve


That's what I noticed from watching some short videos. The D2 is like looking at an old DOS computer screen compared to the MC. Not putting down the D2 because it is a sweet unit in a mess of metal, best I've used. The MC reminds of a kids workbook, not a bad thing, it's awesome . . . that's what came to mind.

But the battery stays for longer...

ozzie -- yep, it's clear a TON of thought went into how to set up that menu system to be as natural/logical/easy-to-navigate as possible. Excellent!

Steve

Steve & Steve......... yes. K.I.S.S. theory was fully implemented to every extent that we could think of. Same with the audio. The audio is to be K.I.S.S. intuitive (to the point of being 'natural').

I really like the menu system as well. No sub menus! However, I would like to see the menu as circular not linear.

khouse....... We thought about this! And decided against. BECAUSE = If the menu were to "wrap-around"........... many (lessor-experienced) folks would "perceive" that the menu "goes on".........and ON.........and ON........and ON: forever! . , . , . , . , . not knowing that they are going back over the same menus ....... again.,.,.,., in a wrap-around fashion!

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> khouse....... We thought about this! And decided a
> gainst. BECAUSE = If the menu were to "wrap-around
> "........... many (lessor-experienced) folks would
> "perceive" that the menu "goes on".........and ON.
> ........and ON........and ON: forever! . , . , . ,
> . , . not knowing that they are going back over th
> e same menus ....... again.,.,.,., in a wrap-aroun
> d fashion!
I get it. Thanks Tom

NASA-Tom,

You talked about K.I.S.S. audio, and yet at the same time there seems to be a lot of "nuance" (which of course it will take me alot of time to learn to decipher), that is sort of "piggybacked" onto the more straightforward, "simpler" audio tone. I sense that beyond the basic "beep," there will be alot there to "unpack" over time.

Along those lines (and it goes back a bit to my question a few days ago about just HOW MUCH of the nuance in the tones is capable of conveying "intelligence" and is thus potentially "revelatory" about target characteristics), the polyphonic audio immediately struck me as "different." I cannot describe it, but as soon as I heard it, I knew what was meant by the advertisements talking about "polyphonic" audio. It is very....different....and definitely entirely unique and unlike any other detector I've ever used. And so, aside from just the "tone" itself, and the nuance that exists there, there seems to be "separate" nuance within this polyphonic aspect of the audio as well. BUT -- is there nuance there that is communicating INFORMATION about the target? I suspect there is, but don't know for sure yet.

For instance. A few targets that I located in my first outing with the machine seemed to be slightly favoring the "left ear" of the headphones. Like, not "centered" between left and right. One in particular was so "left-side-biased," that I reached up to adjust my right earcup, thinking maybe it was not sitting correctly on my ear (and thus why the tone sounded "left-side-dominant"). But. that wasn't it. So then I thought, maybe my allergies were kicking up a bit, and my right ear was getting a bit plugged. But, no, I eventually determined that it was the TARGET that was COMMUNICATING (through the audio) as more of a "left-ear" target. So, I listened more carefully thereafter, and most targets were fairly "well centered" between the two ears. But every once in awhile, I'd hit one that was subtly leaning just a bit "left-ear." I SUSPECT there is information there, but as of yet don't know how to interpret it, and I haven't heard ANYONE talk about this yet...not the manual, not you, not other users. I don't even recall what the target was, that first caused me to notice the "left-side-biased" audio, as I didn't pay enough attention, because I wasn't yet aware that it was a target artifact, and not my ears or my headphones being the issue. So, I wasn't thinking that I needed to make any tuitional associations at that point. But as the hunt went on, and as I have reflected on the hunt since...I have begun to suspect more and more that there may be "something there."

Can you elaborate?

Steve

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NASA-Tom,
>
> You talked about K.I.S.S. audio, and yet at the sa
> me time there seems to be a lot of "nuance" (which
> of course it will take me alot of time to learn to
> decipher), that is sort of "piggybacked" onto the
> more straightforward, "simpler" audio tone. I sen
> se that beyond the basic "beep," there will be alo
> t there to "unpack" over time.
>
> Along those lines (and it goes back a bit to my qu
> estion a few days ago about just HOW MUCH of the n
> uance in the tones is capable of conveying "intell
> igence" and is thus potentially "revelatory" about
> target characteristics), the polyphonic audio imme
> diately struck me as "different." I cannot descri
> be it, but as soon as I heard it, I knew what was
> meant by the advertisements talking about "polypho
> nic" audio. It is very....different....and defini
> tely entirely unique and unlike any other detector
> I've ever used. And so, aside from just the "tone
> " itself, and the nuance that exists there, there
> seems to be "separate" nuance within this polyp
> honic aspect of the audio as well. BUT -- is
> there nuance there that is communicating INFORMATI
> ON about the target? I suspect there is, but don'
> t know for sure yet.
>
> For instance. A few targets that I located in my
> first outing with the machine seemed to be slightl
> y favoring the "left ear" of the headphones. Like
> , not "centered" between left and right. One in p
> articular was so "left-side-biased," that I reache
> d up to adjust my right earcup, thinking maybe it
> was not sitting correctly on my ear (and thus why
> the tone sounded "left-side-dominant"). But. that
> wasn't it. So then I thought, maybe my allergies
> were kicking up a bit, and my right ear was gettin
> g a bit plugged. But, no, I eventually determine
> d that it was the TARGET that was COMMUNICATING (t
> hrough the audio) as more of a "left-ear" target.
> So, I listened more carefully thereafter, and most
> targets were fairly "well centered" between the tw
> o ears. But every once in awhile, I'd hit one tha
> t was subtly leaning just a bit "left-ear." I SUS
> PECT there is information there, but as of yet don
> 't know how to interpret it, and I haven't heard A
> NYONE talk about this yet...not the manual, not yo
> u, not other users. I don't even recall what the
> target was, that first caused me to notice the "le
> ft-side-biased" audio, as I didn't pay enough atte
> ntion, because I wasn't yet aware that it was a ta
> rget artifact, and not my ears or my headphones be
> ing the issue. So, I wasn't thinking that I neede
> d to make any tuitional associations at that point
> . But as the hunt went on, and as I have reflecte
> d on the hunt since...I have begun to suspect more
> and more that there may be "something there."
>
> Can you elaborate?
>
> Steve

That is a cool thought Steve. . .maybe the headphones giving an indication of the target makeup. I wish you had remembered what the target was that you dug when that occurred. I would suspect there was a slight malfunction. These are wireless HP's correct? Hmm, if so that wouldn't make much sense. That's puzzling.