XP DEUS - Real World field-test

Hi Tom, 
Here is the report we discussed regarding my hunt with the Deus on Sunday, 12/28/14.


Three weeks ago I hunted with my Deus two yards in a section of town with really bad soil (Mineralization / Iron Meter readings between 75% and 85%).  On that first hunt I was using the 11" coil and my standard 12 kHz program (React. 1, Silencer 0, Sensitivity 92-94, Disc at 6.8). Neither yard produced much so I knew I needed to hit them again.  

Sunday I re-hunted both yards except this time I was using the 9" coil and my new 'TnSharp' program (18 kHz, React. 2, Silencer -1, Sens. 95, Disc at 5). One of the yards was full of 1.5" nails that read 6 on the VDI; the nails were not being disc'ed out. During my re-hunt on Sunday I recovered over one dozen coins that I am CERTAIN the 11" coil / 12 kHz setup missed including a silver Rosie, a Mercury, a Standing Liberty Qtr., four Buffalo nickels and several wheats. The vast majority of these coins were uncovered in the one yard that was full of nails. These coins were not deep; they ranged in depth from 2" to 5".  

Tom, I noted MUCH cleaner audio signals and VDI readings on the Buffs with the 18 kHz program in this bad soil. The VDI was quite accurate on all the coins listed above except for the Rosie, which read a jumpy 84 (I thought it was going to be an Indian!). In fact the 18 kHz freq. seemed to work just as well as 12 kHz on the silvers and MUCH better on the mid-conductors.The 9" coil in conjunction with the new program (higher freq. (18 kHz) & Reactivity, lower Silencer and  lower disc settings) are clearly superior to my previous setup in this nail infested bad dirt.  

Let me know if you have any questions and as always, thanks for all your help. 

Happy New Year, 
Duke

I think the 11 inch coil has it's place on cleaner ground and I think that and Tom might not think so but the Freq was OK at 12 but I think the reactivity needed to be bumped up to 2-3 and the silencer at -1 Of course every plot of land can be different and if you take in to account moisture and the suns heat a lot of things can change. I would think that 8- 12 Khz would be OK that is what I use for relic hunting in Calif in nails but yes the smaller coil is a must and GB if it was different can make a difference in nails you get more chatter and an unblanced machine so you have the nails to deal with and the GB. I think the lower the disc the more depth you get but in your case that was not an issue. I had to start out with a disc at about 8.8 till I got use to it now I hunt at about 6.5.

Nice post that is why with the deus when you can program it and you know a few things you can go anywhere just about and adjust it to your needs.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

There is a very large dramatic delta/differential between 18 Khz and all the other optional frequencies on the Deus....... as far as enhanced adjacent target separation goes..... and especially in carpets of nails. Just by virtue of switching to 18 Khz...... this pays tribute to (at least) 90% of your enhanced success. In very definitive scientific testing.......... the difference is night-and-day. What is 'physics defying' is: you would think that switching from a 11" coil to a 9" coil would make a large difference. Not so on the Deus/GMP platform. (A paradox). There is indeed a difference; however, small. Continue to hunt in carpets of nails using 18 Khz. When you find a good target that you know is fairly/moderately masked......... switch to any of the other frequencies........... and watch/listen what happens. It'll 'open your eyes'......... and solidify a point. You will never hunt in carpets of nails again.... without exclusively using 18 Khz.

VERY good report. . . . with exacting expectations/resultant.

Been rereading this thread. Got enough hours on the deus now ,that Im starting to understand better what its telling me. I will try what you just stated this weekend Tom. Tomorrow going for the gold...give the goldfield program a good work out if the soil is mild enough for vlf.

Tom again I always take to heart what you write and I never thought about trying 18 freq. So it is about 32 this morning and I have to get all my layers of warm cloths on and go back to the area I was hunting and see what the higher freq can do in my ground. I will do a video if I find anything. So do you feel the higher freq of 18 is the way to go in high trash also not just iron. I have read so many posts where a lot of users don't use 18 but you are saying in high iron, nails that is where the machines shines. And the 11" coil does cause me a lot of problems in heavy iron or wet gound it sees more and my machine seems harder to hone in on targets. When it is wet that is when it gets really tough. Interesting...

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Ray....... If you are gold prospecting............ I recommend exclusively the 18 Khz freq option.

LCPM...... The largest 'realized' performance gain with 18 Khz is indeed in carpets of nails........... and secondarily.......... aluminum trash.

Hi Tom,
Thanks for your response...18 kHz lesson learned!

At least once per week on the other MD Forums I run across another post where an experienced Deus user extols the prowess of his 4 or 8 or 12 kHz 'Silver Coin Program'. From my casual observations it would appear that the 18 kHz freq. is not used that often. And I have no doubt, after Sunday's hunt, that in nail infested bad soil 18 kHz is the best. Tom, it's hard for me to put into words how shocking Sunday's hunt was. I found myself repeatedly muttering "How did I miss that one??". 

At another house just down the street from where I hunted on Sunday, I pulled 9 silvers from that yard in one day back in November. I was using my 11" coil / 12 kHz setup at the time. I'm looking forward to hitting that yard again with the 9" coil /18 kHz setup! 

In conclusion, I want to extend my thanks for your counsel this year. Given the fact I hadn't touched a detector in eight years, 2014 was a remarkable year for me. After 7 months of using ONLY the Deus (approx. 500 hours) I can honestly say it is an amazing piece of equipment and everything you said it was back in June on our call. 

Happy New Year!
Duke

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ray....... If you are gold prospecting............
> I recommend exclusively the 18 Khz freq option.

Hi Tom,Yes the Goldfield program is 18khz, all metal ,threshold. No gold today, but not the detectors fault...My buddy with his GPX didnt get any either....prospecting a new area. Ray

deathray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NASA-Tom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ray....... If you are gold
> prospecting............
> > I recommend exclusively the 18 Khz freq option.
>
> Hi Tom,Yes the Goldfield program is 18khz, all
> metal ,threshold. No gold today, but not the
> detectors fault...My buddy with his GPX didnt get
> any either....prospecting a new area. Ray

Hey Ray

you gotta go hang out/hunt with Ron_ca = he knows where all the gold is!

For the record

I've used 18 Khz on the Deus almost exclusively since buying my 1st one 2 yrs ago

I've only toyed around with the other freq. on occasion

I do use freq. 4 to check for deep iron though (don't know if you've mastered that trick)?
(if you get a deep signal that you think may be a good target but also could be iron - drop down from 18 Khz to 4 and IF the #s and/or tone drop in value = you have a nonferrous target but if they stay the same or rise = iron)...

That trick is listed in Andy Sabisch's Deus HandBook but I knew of it via my buddy who's had a Deus since 1st release and is the main reason I bought one in the 1st place as when we would hunt together back then and all I had was a GBP - he would smoke me in finds every single hunt (hence why I bought the Deus) and evened up the playin field!

Cool,never knew that trick Wayne! Ron is an extremely genorous guy,and has invited me to hunt with him and Mark in the past....just never seemed to find the time,and once they hit that patch , I wasnt going to ask...feel like a claimjumper,lol. The guy I detect with now is along the lines of Steve H. Hes been detecting since early 70s, and ispretty well known as nuggethunter...so Im learning lots. Ray

Tom My friend has your CZ3D I bought it for him when his dad died and he won't give it up. He uses a sens of about 1 and 0 disc and he can find just about anything in iron. I found this yesterday in an area that I have been working by myself...full of nails the square head type but I keep those because of the age of the nails. Anyway I think 18Khz has its place in iron. I had one thought that I want to try...if I lowered my TX power to 1 and my sens to about 80 I wonder in my ground if the nails would not have the same effect on my machine....I'm not going for depth just want to find the relics that I know are hiding in the iron. Would have liked to have a smaller coil for the Deus also to see if it can help in this area. The 11 inch coil is of no use to me it sees too much.This area was a work area for the Train a small camp and it seems only one area was where all the action was. But there is two creeks and I have to think the men got water from the creek have not checked that area out yet maybe on Saturday

[www.thetreasuredepot.com]

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2015 04:39PM by Lawrenzo.

I really hope this is not off topic, but I saw a post on one of the forums that stated that notch just affects the audio and has no affect on performance. If this is the case, why not just use notch instead of disc and be able to hunt in 0 disc and notch the iron at a level you want to hear it or not hear it? Wouldn't that help with separation and increase depth?

I believe on the DEUS the disc is just that a notching out of Audio...

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2015 06:35PM by Keith Southern.

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe on the DEUS the disc is just that a
> notching out of Audio...
>
> Keith


So are you saying that on the Deus it doesn't matter where you set the disc as far as it affecting depth and masking since it is only notching out the audio?

try zero disc,full tones Lowrenzo. To me the nail tone is more pleasant than on g2 or at pro. If not that,at least lower your disc. Ray

I am going in the war zone tomorrow and try out all of your cool ways to hunt..If I can pull out one relic I consider that a huge win. If I can get some of those nails out of the way who knows what I will find..no one has hit this area. I cover all of my holes but the ground is wet with about an inch of green grass growing..It looks like an goffer went crazy but after another rain and the grass and weeds that will grow in the spring no one will ever know I hunted there.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

I should of went into more detail ... I just set my disc in the iron range.....never 1 tone...1 tone would be like a traditonal disc were below disc is quite.((((Or would It???))))...but im running 2 tone and in two tone, disc does not happen it just decides were to break the audio...so I see that in no way that effects depth from my experience...

The disc circutis on the DEUS are tied into the Ground bal in some sort of way Im not sure of....but I do not think the ground bal is traditonal and I do not think the disc is traditional...

its more audio supressive I feel than actual OLD School Disc circuit..100% digital audio filter ..

jsut a stab...dont take it for gospel...

Keith ...

On the Deus/GMP platform.......... something that is not-so-obvious: As coil size goes down (smaller)..... depth is reduced/restricted. This is to be expected; however, what is unsuspecting is: it is a NON-linear scale. A slightly smaller coil on the XP-series presents a dramatic (non-linear) reduction in performance/depth. More/worse than expectations; hence/subsequently...... "why" XP is reluctant to produce smaller coils for their units.

Lawrenzo; As far as having Sens on extremely low settings on a CZ (and hunting in carpets of nails/iron) with very good success....... the XP units ..... due to electronic architect..... will still out-perform a concentric-coil equipped CZ in iron. You can do fairly well in iron with a CZ; yet, it has inherent handicaps due to laws of physics. If the dirt has 'some' nails/iron............ but is not 'carpets' of nails/iron............ a CZ (in general) will far trump the XP-series units.....due to sheer/superior depth capabilities.

Thanks Tom maybe I can trump him when we hunt is Carloina this month..there will be a lot of guys using the Deus and the F75 and the F19

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Hi Tom. I wanted to give you a report on my hunt on Thursday, 1/1/15. I obtained a new permission at another old house (circa 1900) in the same neighborhood as Sunday's hunt site. The soil was just as bad...nearly maxed out the Deus Mineralization Meter (85%) and the site was littered with three-quarter inch tar paper tacks all around the house that read 90 on the VDI. I once again was running the Deus in 18 kHz with the Reactivity at 2, Silencer at -1, Disc at 5, 3 tone, Iron Volume 3 and Sensitivity at 95. I used only the 9" coil. 

I found the site on Thursday to be more difficult than last Sunday's site as the primary junk (copper tacks with an octagon shaped head) was high toning, AND they sounded good if they were 3 or 4" deep. This made it difficult for me to discriminate them out with the audio but the VDI did help as the tacks consistently read 90 when scanned with the center of the coil. Despite that issue I still managed a Barber Qtr., a Barber dime, an Indian, a Buff, a lapel pin and some clad. The coins provided relatively clean audio signals (a few only one way) once I had them isolated from the junk but some had very jumpy VDI readings. The Barber Dime was buried between 5" and 6" deep, under a 1" tree root. It gave me that sweet, soft high tone audio signal but VDI was not accurate as it read 98.

Once again the 9" coil & 18 kHz freq. delivered the goodies. I also hunted on Saturday, report to follow shortly. 

Tom, I have a question; In your testing with the Deus, when it came to unmasking did you note much difference between Reactivity 2 VS. 3? 

Thanks,
Duke

Duke, do a look at all of Keith Southern's posts. Go to pages 14,15, and 16. This may answer your question.

Whilst in 18Khz ........ increasing Reactivity from '2' to '3'..... added maybe 2% - 3% additional adjacent target separation enhancement. Increasing Reactivity to 4 or 5 did not enhance target separation in carpets of nails....... whilst seeking any/all non-ferrous targets. "Perceived" (vs reality) comes into psychological play. The exceptionally shortened audio 'length' ..... whilst in Reactivity 4 or 5 gives the 'perceived' illusion of greater/enhanced adjacent target separation ability; yet, in real-world resultant function/application....... no true additional 'gain' achieved.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2015 10:35PM by NASA-Tom.

Hi Tom. Thanks for your comments regarding Reactivity 2 VS. 3...I think I will keep my setting at 2. 

On Saturday I went back to the same house I hunted last Sunday (12/28). I wanted to finish the front yard that I've already hunted with the 11" coil in 12 kHz. I ended up finding a few more good targets that I missed in 12 kHz, including a '35 Buff, an 1889 Indian Head, two Wheats, a 1920 Mercury, a small .925 silver rose charm and four clad coins. Regarding the silver charm (half the size of a dime), it was 4" deep; the audio signal was clean and the VDI locked onto 86. I initially thought it was going to be a zinc penny but the audio signal wasn't harsh like a Zinc. 18 kHz really hit that little piece of silver jewelry well. 

I have now finished hunting that particular front yard twice, first in 12 kHz then followed up with 18 kHz and I've had some time to think about those hunts. I am absolutely certain that the 11" coil / 12 kHz setup missed over two dozen good targets in that one nail infested yard. I wonder how many other good targets I've passed over in the other yards with the 11" coil / 12 kHz setup? I'm going to find out...I intend to re-hunt each of those yards in 18 kHz, starting with the yard the yielded 9 silvers the first time I hunted it in 12 kHz. Also noteworthy is the fact I've not recovered a single target deeper than 6 inches in that bad soil. While I recognize the fact that the Deus isn't known as a 'depth demon', I know in the past 7 months I've recovered silver dimes and wheats at 8"+; my hunting buddy has witnessed several of those deep recoveries. Those deeper finds however came from much more mild soil (Between 0 and 50% on the Mineralization Meter). Yes Tom, I have learned yet another valuable lesson from you.  I'll be keeping my Deus set on 18 kHz, especially around these older home sites that I frequent.


Good Luck to You in 2015!
Duke


PS. I've also included an additional picture of three unusual buttons I recovered on Saturday from the same house, but in the back yard. All three buttons were found within a 10' radius at approx. 5" deep. The 18 kHz program hit them hard and provided a clean audio signal and a VDI reading that locked on at 93. The buttons read 'Patriarchs Militant' across the top and 'IOOF' across the bottom. I don't know anything about these buttons but I thought you might find them interesting. 

International Order of Odd Fellows buttons.

Tom..... with your newly discovered 18-Khz/Reactivity-2 settings.............. you will find yourself (especially in carpets of nails) investigating more questionable signals, rotating your body around the target, , , , , and short-stroke wrist-snaps ....... to isolate the more handicapped targets. Skillset will increase. Then, you might start dropping iron Disc incrementally....... pushing the envelope....... and audibly unmasking more non-ferrous targets.

Have you switched back to 12-Khz on some targets ...... just to see/hear the audible difference on somewhat handicapped non-ferrous targets in (co-locate) carpets of nails?

Hi Tom. Thanks for your comments above. It's remarkable how many more audio reports I'm hearing now with the Disc set at 5 versus my prior setting at 6.4. In areas surrounding the house it literarily sounds like a machine gun. It's those nail infested areas surrounding the house that yielded most of the additional coins in 18 kHz, just as you suggested. This weekend I will make sure and check one of those masked targets in 12 kHz prior to recovery. I forgot to try that last Saturday.

Also, confirming what you said last week, my Deus is a much better nickel / mid-conductor machine in 18 kHz. The audio signals are much more crisp and definite in 18 kHz.

I shall keep you posted. Have a good weekend,

Duke

Hi Tom,
(Please Note: I was using the Deus Sunday with the 9" coil and the same 18 kHz 'TnSharp' program but I had the Sensitvity set at 97).
I was on another new permission Sunday afternoon. This house is on the same street as all the others I've hunted over the last two months but approx. 1 mile further south. The house was built in the late 40's and sits on a large 2 acre corner estate lot. The soil was  mineralized (approx. 70% on the Mineralization Meter) and the yard had a few roofing nails scattered around the house but it was not a nail infested site. I did not encounter any heavily masked or co-located targets so I didn't get a chance to toggle down to 12 kHz and compare the signals. 

Below is a picture of the three silvers I recovered during my 4.5 hour hunt, including my first Big Ben Half. Not pictured were six wheats and 14 clad. 

A few days ago Sharpshooter made a comment about 18 kHz possibly hitting coins on edge a little better than the other freqs. As an anecdotal observation, I believe there may be something to this. Yesterday I recovered yet another coin on edge. One of the Rosie's was approx. 3"-4" deep and completely on edge in the sidewall of the hole. The audio signal on this Rosie was good one way (VDI 93/94) and notably weaker at 90* (VDI 89/91), but still a 'dig me' signal both ways. The silver half was only 3" deep; the audio signal was so strong that my first thought was 'junk'. I have dug a bunch of those signals (very strong audio & VDI 96/97) since getting my Deus and they've all been junk, either copper or thick / folded metal junk. I was really pleased to see big silver in the bottom of the hole this time. 

Thank you NASA-Tom and Tnsharpshooter for your help...very much appreciated.

Duke

You're welcome Duke. A good hunt for the dead of winter. You've got your Deus humming. And remaining perceptive on any and all digs sharpens your skill.

Can't prove it, because I'm not patient enough in the recovery phase, but I believe most times if you miss the target when digging by a large margin it's coin on edge. Especially, if it's a clean hit with no iron around.

In non nail-infested sites........ it's hard to see any difference in regards to 18-Khz 12, 8, 4-Khz.

70-Cents worth of coins..... probably dropped around 1955. Always interesting reaffirmation that Half Dollars were a common regular circulating coin. Congrat's!

And appreciate your continued observations dissemination.

Quote
NASA-Tom
Always interesting reaffirmation that Half Dollars were a common regular circulating coin.

Has anyone ever found a half dollar dated 1995-2014?