XP DEUS - Real World field-test

Tom, I would like to see Dr. JoePrime test his Deus (nickle/dime) in wet salt sand that has significant mineralization. If I remember correctly he detects in Southern California. Dr. Joe, you up for a little testing??? Congrats on that big gold ring

I have made a couple of EDITS to my wet salt beach test post.... in regards to the DEUS. I have annotated the new additions with ***

I think it inevitable that some design compromises have been made in order to achieve four frequencies over such a wide range. Almost certainly the coil inductance AND it's matching tuning capacitor will both be changed. This may be the cause of disappointment when 4KHz fails to deliver the 'expected' silver-coin depth etc. I'm sure if the Deus (coil) was available in four different frequency versions, the performance would be improved. Curiously, the large Deus coil (13" x 11" ) also does all four frequencies, maybe this is simply due to keeping the electronics identical for manufacturing reasons.
Tom needs to ask around for a loan of an XP G-MAXX 2, also, - its lower operating frequency (4.6KHz) should make it a good coin-hunter.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2012 09:12PM by Pimento.

At this point I have to ask, what is the advantage(s) of the DEUS (if any) over the F75SE and ETRAC?

I realize the complexities of this question....

Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2012 04:43PM by Aaron.

TeraDigger: I'd be happy to try out the wet beach and report depth results.

In Tom's testing I was astounded to read that VDI went down with depth. My dry sand experience is just the opposite..and while I never hunted the wet enough to verify I just assumed the same results would occur there too.

On my wet sand for GB I used the pumping method and got a GB of about 2 or so the half dozen times I tried it. Now I just manually set it to that area...from 2 to 5 (depending on my mood).

Generally on the beaches here in California mineralization is mild and diffused...however at times the black sand accumulates in large sheets of 2" depth. My PI's struggle and target depths are reduced down to perhaps 4" or so under the black sand. I have yet to try the WET SAND program in those places.

REgards, Joe (California)

Lowered the disc to Zero for much better depth in my soil....

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I have yet to understand why this complete unit
> has two redundant detectors. One being the
> headphones...... and the other being the
> control-head. Both perform nearly the exact same
> functions.
>
> Tom

I've been doing lite reading on the Dues since it hit the forums in the US, and have found it to be an interesting machine, but thus far not interesting enough to purchase one.

Tom in regards to the redundant detector quandry, I read where someone posted that once you pick up a second wieless coil unit that you could indeed have two seperate detectors, albiet the one without the control-head might be at a disadvantage without the visual display. Kind of a neat idea....I guess....not sure.....interesting

Thanks for taking the time to test the XP and sharing your findings and thouhts on it. One question - am I correct in understanding that while the XP is a multifrequency machine, you cannot, use more then one frequency at a time?

Personally, at least at this point in time, I'm more interested to hear about Fisher's new multi-frequency machine....if it even exists.

HH,
Brian

Pimento Wrote:

> Tom needs to ask around for a loan of an XP G-MAXX
> 2, also, - its lower operating frequency (4.6KHz)
> should make it a good coin-hunter.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll keep an eye out for a used on here in Europe. I am a coin hunter and can always use a backup unit to my E-Trac.
edit - found this on ebay.co.uk - appears to be a newer model: [www.ebay.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2012 07:55AM by earthmansurfer.

The GMAXX 2 is sometimes referred to as being a 4.6KHz GMP. The Deus-style telescopic stem is new, it was previously a conventional S-bend type. I don't think the electronics has changed, that eBay UK listing refers to the changes from the GMAXX to the GMAXX 2. There is surprisingly little mention of them here on the UK forums, most people prefer the high-frequency GMP for relic/hammered-coin hunting. Here's a Searcher Magazine field test, for info.:
[regton.com]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2012 12:16PM by Pimento.

I gave a seminar to the Gold Coast Treasure Club (GCTC) last night........ and demonstrated the DEUS as part of the presentation. Extremely well received. It was the photo star of the evening.

For what it's worth................. if words 'speak'...................... I have just shipped/returned the XP DEUS to the rightful owner....................
but
................. am keeping the XP GMP for a few more days. ((( I received the DEUS and GMP in the mail .... just minutes apart from each other...... from different people........ in different parts of the country))). I have one more controlled hunt to perform with the GMP................ (if you are not in a hurry to get it back Keith?).

I'm in no hurry Tom..I have to work the next 4 days anyway...

I myself am about DEUS'd out......Need to get it back to the rightful owner....

Keith

Its not rocket science to tune a coil to a specific frequency ,its the size of the target that matters and its conductivity , the Deus does tune to the frequency your using , this is why you get a different readout for the same objects, on each separate frequency,
I got rid of my 705 because Minelab were having a laugh all those different coils ,dont give these manufacturers to much encouragement!!,,Minelab already have a switch able VLF with there Eureaka Gold three frequencies 6.4 20 60 KHZ thats quite a variation...
BBS/FBS uses a harmonic a sub frequency of several primary frequencies ,I believe that give the multi frequencies to the Explorer Etrac Sovereign range,
If you wanted to work out the resonant frequency of any piece of metal in the ground be it a coin a gold nugget , you can do this ,and the manufactures use it for there pre set program,s so they will miss items that do not come within there pre set parameters. its all a compromise really ,so what s the best , well its what's best for you .
Real World Field Test I have not used it enough to say that I am an expert , based on what we can potentially find here in the UK ranging from a Rose Farthing ( really small) to a cartwheel penny , the Deus is suburb the sheer convenience of its portability , how light it is ,total freedom from wires , and its reactivity is so quick , I have not used it on the beach yet , and if the weather holds off I will rectify that to day.., the days of the black box have gone ,, lets watch the other manufacturers play catch up to the Deus..

Rallymaker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its not rocket science to tune a coil to a
> specific frequency ,its the size of the target
> that matters and its conductivity , the Deus does
> tune to the frequency your using , this is why
> you get a different readout for the same objects,
> on each separate frequency,
> I got rid of my 705 because Minelab were having a
> laugh all those different coils ,dont give these
> manufacturers to much encouragement!!,,Minelab
> already have a switch able VLF with there Eureaka
> Gold three frequencies 6.4 20 60 KHZ thats quite
> a variation...
> BBS/FBS uses a harmonic a sub frequency of several
> primary frequencies ,I believe that give the multi
> frequencies to the Explorer Etrac Sovereign range,
>
> If you wanted to work out the resonant frequency
> of any piece of metal in the ground be it a coin a
> gold nugget , you can do this ,and the
> manufactures use it for there pre set program,s so
> they will miss items that do not come within there
> pre set parameters. its all a compromise really
> ,so what s the best , well its what's best for you
> .
> Real World Field Test I have not used it enough to
> say that I am an expert , based on what we can
> potentially find here in the UK ranging from a
> Rose Farthing ( really small) to a cartwheel
> penny , the Deus is suburb the sheer convenience
> of its portability , how light it is ,total
> freedom from wires , and its reactivity is so
> quick , I have not used it on the beach yet , and
> if the weather holds off I will rectify that to
> day.., the days of the black box have gone ,, lets
> watch the other manufacturers play catch up to the
> Deus..

Are you sure about that first part? The Deus may "tune" to each frequency when you change them but it can't physically optimize the coil for each. The windings and other things about the coil all affect the frequency used - not sure there though but the guys here were talking about it on another thread. But I am pretty sure that when you have one coil working at different frequencies that IS NOT OPTIMAL at some of those frequencies. So, the Deus probably has 1 or 2 frequencies where it is best (12 and 18?) and then there is a fall off, noticeable, at the others. And the 4.6kHz freq appears to be the one that is hit in a bad way. In no way does the Deus at that frequency seem to be on par with the Gmax II from what I have read but it does appear very close the the 18kHZ Gmax (1).

The reason that you get different VID's at different frequencies is due to opposite ends of the VID spectrum being opened for different ranges due to the resonance of different frequencies with different conductors. In other words the 4kHz frequency resonates good with high conductors (e.g. Silver) and those higher VID numbers have more separation (and accuracy) on the upper end of the scale. The 18kHz frequency means that the low conductors (e.g. gold) are more open than the upper. This continues along the spectrum.

I think your Minelab 705 was probably very tuned to each frequency since it used separate coils and each coil optimized for that one frequency.

The machine sure does appear convenient, light and to be an overall very high performer in iron and also to get pretty good depth in bad ground as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2012 12:06PM by earthmansurfer.

What is an 8" 3 ringer real world target? Just wondering.

8 inch deep civil war era bullet.


I have recently read on the British forums that the larger coil performs better with the lower frequencies. I will be holding off. $$$$



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2012 05:59PM by goodmore.

I am no expert far from it!! would not a coil have a peak frequency were certain size objects coins or what ever will be attracted because they are more resonant to the particular frequency of that coil when a magnetic field is passed over them, could I not find the resonance of a coin or an any piece of metal by using the 1 over 2 pi square root of (LxC) formula ,then tune the coil to except items within a range close to it, I thought that was how it worked, the perfect experiment for the Deus would be on some one test bed out in there yard to see how the different frequencies perform .how does the Eureaka Gold change its switchable frequencies , it only uses one coil to acheive this ,, as I said I am no expert.

Pimento Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The GMAXX 2 is sometimes referred to as being a
> 4.6KHz GMP. The Deus-style telescopic stem is new,
> it was previously a conventional S-bend type. I
> don't think the electronics has changed, that
> eBay UK listing refers to the changes from the
> GMAXX to the GMAXX 2. There is surprisingly little
> mention of them here on the UK forums, most people
> prefer the high-frequency GMP for
> relic/hammered-coin hunting. Here's a Searcher
> Magazine field test, for info.:
> [regton.com]

Thanks for leaving that Pimento and I missed it till yesterday, but luckily was reading this thread again. I have to say it was a real mind opener. They described how unique the discrim coupled with the iron volume is. I really enjoyed that review and now that it uses 4 (more like 3 due to the disc) tones, I'm open to using it as a coin hunter. (Just love those meters you know. ;-) But wouldn't it be nice if the Deus came out with a frequency specific coil for the Gmaxx II, as I don't hear much about that 4.6kHz frequency on the Deus being good (rather that it's for the larger coil). So, the suspicions here regarding the Deus coil being optimized for 12 and 18kHz freqs appear to be true thus far.

Albert

Again I believe the DEUS is on a 12 khz tuned coil....seems to like the middle of the road the best....Its not quite there in performance to a GMP when set like a GMP...I believe it will not quite be there when compared to a Gmaxx II...That's what we see when the freq's swaps take place....they are on that freq but they are things being done inside the coil to allow that freq to transmit and it not in total alignment...

I think that's why the X-Terra uses different coils for different freq's...I thought it was a gimmick on minelab's part but now I think it is the real deal...The V3i and DFX are probably also middle of the road aligned..?

This is all speculation...But i see the standalone GMP as a little hotter and more smoother compared to the GMP program on the DEUS...The same should ? hold true for the Gmaxx 4.6 standalone ...I would love to get a GMaxx..from what I now know..

But the DEUS is awesome the way it is just a little off on the fringe settings....Its a multi machine replacer but not if you are serious you will still need multi machine's make sense?..They know that at XP and want to keep selling there 1,000.00 stand alone machine also..There GMP is in a league all it's own...Ill bet the Gmaxx is too...


Keith

From what users say on a UK forum, the Deus is better than the GMP when used in GMP mode, seeming slightly deeper, and possibly faster. But the Deus has more options, so there would presumably also be scope to fine-tune it more.
Keith: The Whites machines don't have a tuned coil, so these Deus-style multiple frequency issues aren't applicable to it.

Pimento Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From what users say on a UK forum, the Deus is
> better than the GMP when used in GMP mode, seeming
> slightly deeper, and possibly faster. But the Deus
> has more options, so there would presumably also
> be scope to fine-tune it more.
> Keith: The Whites machines don't have a tuned
> coil, so these Deus-style multiple frequency
> issues aren't applicable to it.

I don't understand, how can a V3 operate in multiple separate frequencies but the coil not be tuned, per say? What would the effects of this be relative to say the Deus design?

Thx,
Albert

I myself personally after having used the GMP see the DEUS a little less for intended purpose iron hunitng for artifact's a little more for coin hunting though when compared to the GMP......But If i had never had a GMP I would be more than pleased with the DEUS...Not knocking the DEUS one bit it's an outstanding machine...but that's before discovering the GMP also...

One thing right off the bat though is the DEUS is more behaved in iron than the GMP...GMP is very noisy in iron but communicates volumes if you listen...the DEUS is more pleasing yet very capable..

There's something different about the GMP I cant quite explain but it does something a little extra in iron..not much but something...Audio wise more than anything else..

I would love to have either...I just have the GMP and like what it does...

I know in the U.K. they have some reason also for running the GMP at like half throttle..Not sure why..I can actually run it into the red zone on power pretty easily...in dense iron seem's to give more umph...


when you say they don't tune the white's coil's to a freq ..I wonder what they do? there has to be some sort of spec's they are aligned on...makes you wonder does it not?

.that same coil will fit on a MXT..

Wonder if it's a harmonic coil?

Thanks for the info

Keith

I'm not a Whites expert, but I'll try my best. It always transmits all 3 freqs continuously. It just 'pays attention' to all/one/whatever-other-combo on the receive side. The transmit coil is just that, a coil of wire that gets a complicated 'square-wave' type signal rammed on it. Not tuned to anything specifically. The induction balance point is probably optimised for the mid-frequency, when the coil is made.
I think the Deus IS tuned, because I've seen internal photo's and heard technical reports which suggest it is, and brute-force multi-frequency transmission is quite power-hungry, I think, and not what you would want from a device powered from a small battery.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2012 09:59PM by Pimento.

Concur. The GMP appears to have slightly more 'punch' over the DEUS when comparable settings are employed (or even boosted beyond GMP's abilities).

Pimento - I never heard the V3i transmits all three freqs continuously. Are you sure about this, because: For one, the lowest frequency eats up more battery and 2nd White's (perhaps it was just the White's Mods) said that the punch in 3 frequency is not the same as in one frequency because the energy is shared amongst the 3 frequency. This implies that it isn't always sending 3 frequencies, I would think. When I hunted in my iron mineralized ground a single frequency got more depth and consistent VID than the 3 frequency mode, which didn't make sense initially, but since there is more energy in the single frequency it now does. It does appear the Deus is tuned though. When I ran the 2.5 freq on the V3i it didn't seem as good in my ground as the 22.5 freq. That was odd I thought as I reasoned (probably incorrectly) that the lowest frequency would cut through the iron mineralization best, but apparently the 22.5 did.

This is really interesting...

Maybe I'm not totally correct about the Whites, then, but as it's off-topic I won't delve further.

Well, I broke down (almost literally) and ordered a Deus, minus the backphones. I love my E-trac, even if it has some iron shortcomings but my sensitive back is not happy with it. I'll try the Deus for a few months and report back how it performs in this iron mineralized soil. I havd ground readings from the T2, Omega & V3i to add to the equation, so I think this will be of benefit to add to the discussion. I did start to prefer the simplicity of the E-Trac but after using the V3i with no probs and having read the Deus manual as well as perused the UK forum for years, I think I'll pick up on it quickly. Hope to have some nice videos as well.

The thing I am really looking forward to is folding it up and going to new spots that the E-trac limited me to, being I'm on a bike and/or train. You know detectors in cases resemble rifles! Eheheh

I should be hunting with it by next week. Think I'll hit a 500 year old market that I am pretty sure I am the only one who has ever hunted it, first. Fair amount of iron there, so we'll see if the other three detectors missed anything.

Albert

earthmansurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I broke down (almost literally) and ordered
> a Deus, minus the backphones.


Nice one. Be sure to use good quality headphones with the Deus, as it is all about the sound quality.

And create some programs, that use minimal disc as this seems to be key to gaining great depth with the Deus.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2012 06:01PM by Etsija82.

Etsija82 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> earthmansurfer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, I broke down (almost literally) and
> ordered
> > a Deus, minus the backphones.
>
>
> Nice one. Be sure to use good quality headphones
> with the Deus, as it is all about the sound
> quality.
>
> And create some programs, that use minimal disc as
> this seems to be key to gaining great depth with
> the Deus.

Thx 4 the suggestion.

I'm going to try her wide open and see what the iron vol is like. If the iron is too much for me I'll disc at 4.5 or 5.5. . I'll use a modified GMP program.

...of posting your test on the XP Forum here in the UK.

Maybe some of you guys would like to register and read the Deus and GMP talk over here if you haven't done so already.

[www.xp-ownersforum.com]

I am diverting my money that I was saving for a BMW for this detector!!