An XP Deus topic...........and request.......for CW relic hunters

I have a three ringer buried at 7 inches, one at 8 inches, and one at 9 inches, and one at 10. I have a coat-sized Union Eagle I button buried at 7.5 inches. My Deus, which by the way I like better than any detector that I have had due to it's separation ability, hit's on the big 58 cal bullets fairly good depending on the settings. If I back away from each bullet and walk towards it swinging, I somtimes wonder if I would dig it. This is due to the fact that they are buried in a portion of my yard that was not sterilized. I did that on purpose to sort of re-create real world conditions. And while I am swinging and easing toward the target (that I already KNOW is there) there are other bleeps that sound like the bleep coming from the bullet....even the 7 inch one. BUT......if I isolate the bullet and make small 2 to 3 inch swings across it, of course I can detect it and the Deus has no problem picking it up. I am talking about the 9 and 10 inch ones too. But I have discovered that I could easily pass over good targets in the field if I go to fast. AND I GO TO FAST!!!! That's for sure. If I am calm and focused when I am swing my detector at an old homesite, I WILL find stuff. Good stuff and bad stuff. BUT, if I try to cover alot of ground so that I can hurry up and hit a good signal......all I will finf is big iron, bottlecaps, and sqashed aluminum cans (hor do those things get so deep?!)
The Brass button is a different story. With a normal swing speed, and I have slowed it down during the test, my Deus will not give a solid lock on that button!!! But because I already know where it is, I can find it. If that button similarly buried in the field, without my knowledge of where it was, I would VERY likely miss it. Maybe I need to try and formulate a program that will hit harder on brass!!! I have it buried face up too!! It should rattle my headphones. There MAY be a sliver of iron trash right over it....I don't know. I will re-bury it and see what the maximum depth of detection is. Oh....when I swing right over it in very small swings, it will give a beep with each swing and give a TDI of 92 (in the 70's if not in dirt).
Now to my question: Do any of you Deus users who detect Civil War relics have a favorite program???? Maybe one that you have devised that you would care to share with me? I'd be much obliged. Thanks. Kevin

Hey Kevin...

The DEUS is reacting the way it should...you just have so many different variables to adjust to get it to perform like you want...

Let me ask you this ...what other machine hits the Eagle button better...? Does that machine hit the Bullet's better also? or are you just wondering why they seem to be easily missed...Are you in mineralizd dirt?

As a general rule the slower you get the reactivity the deeper it will go ...The bullet's will be more reactive on 8Khz they are quite large and conduct lke a penny..
the button will be heard better at depth with 12Khz with at least a 2 reactivity lower for more depth...if in mineral dirt swing more slowly...

The silencer feature can do wonders for you in open area's on isolated target's in bad dirt or even good dirt it will allow more of the edges of the signal in..sort of let's you know when you are getting in close to an object without being on top of it...Alot of the deep seeker unit's perform like this...most all machines are of the same depth 1-3 inches deeper depending on target condcutivity vs machine.. once a target is centered most all machine's can hear deep target's....but the machines with a wide scan area around the coil will hear target's more easily and allow you to center up on them...get them in the sweet spot of the coil...
Thats one reason a good all metal mode is nice to have in open area's...it will hear item's off the sides of the coil better.( No Filtering) and then allow you to cross check in disc mode...these are target's that would other wise go undetected due to depth or coil just not centering over it when hunting wide open area's..Frequency will come into play on depth on the fringe target's more noticeably than anything...that's why I listed then 1-3 inches difference on depth from machine to machine...Some target' once centered will still not be heard on cetain machine's and Viceversa on other target's with same machine's showing exact opposite behavior...

At least with the DEUS all the machien's are with you at one time...LOL.!!!




Lest step back and look at thing's...

the DEUS is still just a VLF detector...But it has the ability to do so many adjustment's it will put it equal with the best machines available today on a vlf market...

it's no magic stick as is no other detector but it gives full control of the most important setting's..

it will work iron as good as the best in the world and thats with a larger coil Vs a small coil on the other ...
It is very deep as deep as you want you just have to set it right...

Ever hear someone say they're old 1266 fisher will dig a bullet 15 inches deep...I do.. I have....why does it do that...Well it has minimal amount of filtering to the signal...i.e. the iron bleeds through pretty bad...and deep iron sound's like great target's....and also with the less filtering of the signal you get more of a wide scan effect from the coil plus lots of transmit power is incorporated in the design...and it its also on 4Khz and that punches dirt well and like's higher conductor's like large caliber bullet's...remember they read like a Penny....

Well set the DEUS up like a 1266 fisher wiht the added bonus of having a ground balance also.....put it on 4 kHZ slow the reactivity down to 0 or 1 and a big plus is put the silnecer on -1.....see if you dont hear bullet's extremely deep and drawn out sounding on top of that...You have the machine behaving like a 1266 now and they are very very close like this in depth...see what happens to your bullet's on that setting and see if they just dont bang out...remember on 4Khz the machine will go to a 3 transmit power...


Ever wonder why the Gold Bug Pro will unmask extremely well in nails on low conductor's like button's but really dont dig alot of very deep .58 bullet's...
the Freq at 19khz loves buttons especially smaller sizes but is weaker on the penny reading bullet's...and at depth the reactivity of the Gold Bug is so quick it get's shut down by the dirt...the more the mineral the quicker the depth shut's down coupled with a high freq even on a deep low conductor...

The DEUS will outperform the Gold Bug in iron for shutdown between target's but you also have the option of leaving the freq on 18Khz and slowing the reactivity down to allow for more punch/Longer look at a target on the lower conductor's at depth....In less iron trash area's..

Ever wonder why a F-75 LTD on boost mode goes deeper than a regular f-75 ...Well one reason is the reactivity has slowed down allowing for a longer look at target's..in good dirt on 13 Khz it's freq is middle of the road for low and high also for more of an all arounder...

The DEUS is not a Boost process machine but very capable of staying with the F-75 on depth .

Also remember when you change setting's on the DEUS and compare with other machine's make sure you readjust you sweep speed for more accurate performance,,,,

What ever settings you use make sure they are right for the sight and you put them to use by using them correctly...

The DEUS can emulate about any othe VLF detector for performance....I.D. at depth visually it wont do but for the real nut's and bolt's approach of depth and unmasking it's the perfect 1-2 punch all in one package...

On a fresh hunt 12 khz would be the best with reactivity 2... but once the site get's worked down the different freq's and reactivity setting's and silencer setting's will open the site back up again...be it iron trash or open area's...get the setting's right...Get the swep speed right for setting's...

I am working on a video right now I may post soon....

it shows just because you got the Reactivity all the way up to as fast as it will go there's still target's in iron that wont be heard till the silencer is on -1..

I also have a deep target with the reactivity on zero that will not be heard till the silencer is on -1.....

so for the ultimate last bit on depth or in iron the silencer is another window of opportunity...it becomes very noisy and sparky but open's up again area's past other detector's.untouched area's of exploration...

there's also the non motion disc mode's....they are very deep but need a full grasp on the mode's to get the ultimate depth..




I hope the next version of software gives us a true all metal threshold based mode...with disc running in unison...

Keith

Keith, I was really hoping that you would see this thread and post in it.....especially since your videos partially influenced me to nuy this unit. And let me tell ya friend, I have NO regrets. I have owned all the top of the line VLF's and the Deus has TRULY MADE old sites like new again. I can already see a couple of things that I need to do,....one is to swing slower and don't worry about covering alot of ground. But to concentrate on a 20ft by 20 ft spot for instance. Or.... the amount of ground that is shaded by a nearby tree. That is a favorite of mine becuase I can't stand to detect when I am burning up in the direct sunlight but prefer shade. So the shadows make a nice mark on the ground that I use as reference. Please bear in mind that I have not studied your post yet.......I just wanted to thank you for it because I already know that it will be informational. After I read it I am go find that video where you found the Flying Eagle cent and watch how you move your coil. By the way, if it is not already posted, can you tell me what program you were in when you found that coin???????? I have found a few pieces of silver (coins) with mine and MANY wheat pennies. This unit has turned out to really like coins!!! It really locks onto them. (I'm not really sure that "lock on" is correct terminology since it is easy to lock off if swinging to fast. I am gonna hush now and read what you wrote. If you ask any questions in your post, I will reply in another post elow this one. Thanks again for your feedback. You have really learned these XP machines!!!!

The AT Pro hits the button better but JUST the button. The Deus hits the bullets including the deeper ones, and also a silver dime at 10 inches that the AT Pro won't touch. Mineralized dirt: I have been telling everyone that I am in mineralized dirt. I live in West Tennessee and the dirt is red. I had a CZ3D that tom was getting 12.2 inches with a dime in his dirt (non - mineralised) but mine was aquiring the dime at a max of 6 inches. So I am fairly mineralised. Not as much as Daniel T. I don't think, but still mineralized. The Deus is quite sensitive to it even with a precise ground balance although I ususally ground balance three points lower than the 'pumped' GB. (Make sense?)
The silencer filter has me bumfuzzled. Right now, and even this evening maybe, I am going back there to see if I can fish out some more stuff. I would like to reset my silencer so that I will maybe hit something that I missed. What is the rule of thumb fo silencer setting. In a ground full of nails versus a gound with only a nail here and there. I need to study the silencer function more.

I find that swinging slower and hunting in a smaller area the Deus is just a great detector to use. The Deus does it's best if you allow the detector to take a longer look in the ground. It has world class recovery speed, but to me that doesn't mean fast hunting. Unless the Bulldozers are coming slow down and enjoy the hunt. I personally have two programs set up side by side in the remote. One for heavy iron where the recovery speed needs to be faster. It also has a set discrimination of 5. The other has a slower recovery speed and zero discrimination. More for cleaner patches or where I want to punch deeper. I have never messed around with the silencer, but I will check into it. About the only things I adjust during a hunt are the sensitivity settings and frequency. I personally like the 12Khz frequency. But little stuff can be a pain some times so I drop to 8.

I have the large coil also. I'm really not up on the best settings yet. Where I want to use it is now two feet tall grass. But I do know that the the two different size coils are like children. They both have their own personallity. I have never used a detector where changing coils changes the detector and hunting techniques so much.

Hey Kevin the silencer is just that....the higher you set it the more the signal becomes more text book discriminated...the less you use the more a signal becomes how should I say more tonal...you might see it in multi tone 3 or 4 that the non iron tones start to move around more on the target from the edge of aproach might be low then a medium or high tone in the center ....

But the most important thing you will notice is the rejected target's...'In relic hunting cases iron nails'... will start to bleed through...what do I mean by this?

Well say on a silencer setting of 2 a nail will be a perfect low tone grunt...well go down to a -1 and the nail now will be more inclined to iron grunt and also make a splattery higher tone also...not a solid type high tone but a mixed and mingled blurpity sound...

Now why would you want a nail to do that...? All the recovery speed in the world wont help CERTAIN target's in the shadow of iron....

Lets say for instance you have a 2 inch long square nail but there's a silver dime under it 2 inches down....all the speed in the worold wont sperate the nail and coin like that they are in the exact same snapshot under the coil...a blended target will signal and if it's not close enough to the nail to overcome it then it will become just another iron grunt....But if the nail starts to get blipity by the silencer looking at the nail in a less agressive way any little bit of out of ordinary signal will become more solid and rounder sounding....the dime can know sneak it's conductance through ...

Say you have a fogged up window and thats the iron tone on the nail....hold a coin on the other side and it's not seeable......take a tooth pick and run some streak's across the window thats the silencer opening up alittle bit of the discriminated iron,,,,now hold the dime again on the backside of the window ...now you can see it some not all but alittle bit of it...just enough to make sort of a smoother than normal blip the nails will be falsing to.. just enough to report to you time to dig...the I.D. will still show iron but the audio will report something out of the normal high blips...a different type of high blip will sneak in and will repeat when isolated...but remember it's still going to just allow a blip but a nuanced blip!

Now dont think for a minute from the analogy above that the nail is being seen through. I just used it as a picture painting example....what happens is the conductance of the coin and nail combined might not be enough to rise above a nail report on the audio even when set to razor edge on the disc.. but when the high tones/fasling come's in from less filtering of the nail then and only then can the dime that is increasing the conductance ever so slightly break through with a little bit better blip.....

I hope the analogy does not confuse you though...but it's as simple as I could come up with...

This is where having razor edge iron resolution ..edge of nail reject ....then less filtering of the rejected side of the disc setting and then ultra fast shutdown between target's can come together to create better unmasking...


I am not saying use it all the time on -1 but when a site become's unproductive you have another option that most people dont have..

The silencer can also help in minerals...using the same fogged glass scenario...but instead of the fog being a nail it will be mineral dirt...

get a hit in mineral... look at the i.d. it still shows 0 or 1 like mineral read's but the audio however slight it may be will be reporting a target trying to break through..

the more aggresive silencer/filter you use the less real time the target's become....I myself like a true picture under the coil at all time's...but I decide when and where to become extra sleuthy in the hunt...

See how much this Guy who designed this machine put alot of settings control in it for unmasking purposes...Quickness///exact tone break///variable filter....these are the best efforts to date for unmasking ....

Just my take on it..always try thing's for yourself...what I see and hear might be completely different from what you see and hear...

On a side note I do live in North Ga and do Have red clay and hot rocks to galore...


Keith



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2012 10:08PM by Keith Southern.

I'm about 15 minutes away for going and trying the new program I created using some of your info Keith!! You are SO right. It is like trying this homesite with a rand new detector. Here's my prgram if I can rememer it:
DISC: 0
4 Tones. Tone 1 &2 are ar 202 khz. Tone 3 at 590, Tone 4 at 790 or thereabouts
Tone 1 and 2 from 0 to 44.....Midtone starts at 45 and goes to 70....Hi Tone goes from 70 to 99
Reactivity at 2 Silencer at 0
Freq at 12 khz
Sens at 98 , TX Power at 3
I know that I forgot some. When I go to the site, I will work it real slow in this setting. I wanted 0 disc so as not to disc out anything nonferrous with the ferrous. I know that it will have alot of iron grunting but I will see how much that I can take. I believe that zero disc will give some depth (I have heard) plus it will let me hear everything. If it's too much, I will modify. Soldiers camped all around this old homesite. A dozer pushed the home down and filled in the basement (No telling what is in THAT dirt) so the relics could be at any depth. I will experiment with this new program and note what needs changing. So far, the lower Silencer setting (zero) hasn't resulted in any excessive noise here at home. I have been running the silencer at factory setting with each program. (2?). Gotta go. Maybe today will be the day that I find that next drooped wing button but I will need to sweep MUCH slower than I have been doing if I am gonna find a button. Thanks for your time and information!!!

Kevin you have to break your low tone to mid tone with the disc....
when you set it on zero like that then break it at 44 you are being very detrimental to the unmasking abilities of the machine...

you need to get it to break low to mid or as I use it 2 tone ...low and high.....set your disc just to reject a nail ..should be around 4 or so....then anything that blips up higher dig it...dont watch the meter in iron just go by the quality of the audio report...

with the tones not really changing till 44 alot of relics of value will come in at single digit's like cuff buttons mixed with nails...buttons will I.D. at iron in nails [thats below 10 on the i.d.] with the tone not breaking till 44 like that..

the whole setup process I went though about the silencer was based on the fact that the machine would be set at minimal nail disc...I am not sure you would see any improvement in setting it with the tone break so high...

Thats why you really did not notice and improvement in the silencer being low like that...you have the disc so high on the tone break it is overshadowing the performance aspect of the setting...you are so far above nail in the disc range the silencer is just staying quite on the nails it is not going to bleed a signal up that far above 44...


I hope I am making sense to you Kevin...I hope we are not on 2 different pages//

Keith

I think that I follow what you are saying. I borrowed the concept of setting the first two tones at 202 khz....so that I can run in zero disc. Let me ask ya something, in nail ridden sites, when looking for mainly relics and the occasional coin do you use three tones or four. And the next question: would I be just as well off to run, say, in Program two (GM Power ?) and then just tweak IT'S settings like SILENCER and frequency etc etc.
I got the zero disc program, where ya run the first two tones at 202 khz, from the Rogers Relics website. It was claimed to increase depth. That was my reasoning. But, the site that I am really working on right now is an old old homesite that was dozed down. Square nails everywhere. Supposedly used a hospital during and after the battle of Shiloh by the Union. Ironically, I found a drooped wing Confederate staff button there (with my AT Pro). So iron separation is what I really need. But, maximum depth is also a plus, as I am not sure how much dozer work went on. Some of the goodies might be deeper than I am reaching.

The program you speak of off rogers relic sites are for more of open field and such with not alot or iron...

but when hunting nail infested sites like 19th century civil war house sites if we are going to unmask behind other detector we need to just use a nail reject setting...I prefer a 2 tone myself...less processing ...I set low tone at 202 and high tone as high as it will go 757 I believe it is..

then when you assign your disc to reject nails longways lying flat the tone will break at this point.....should be like 4.5 or something close in there.. I have had it down to like 2.6 in smaller nails...

I like the 18 khz....reactivity 3 silencer -1......work slow ...dont worry about the meter to much...dig any repeatable signal that is high toning constant it might be just a blip... but investigate...sometimes a good target will show up on the i.d. at like 11 or 12 but if it really gets mingled it will not show up on the screen hardly or it will be like 7-8 or something..somtimes it's just funky iron but then sometimes it's a masked target you break the dirt open move the iron around doing so and all of a sudden you wil have a target showing up like 60 ...

If you get a blip type high tone solid sounding or faint and weak dig it ...the screen alot of times will just be blank...always go by the tone when working iron or when looking for real deep isolated taregt's...the meter does not work for a reason....it would rather not lie and throw a number that could mislead you..Its designed this way...

I am not really sure that is the best way to cut your teeth on dense iron hunting because you will dig alot fo trash nails weird shaped iron etc...but it's a learning experience...and if you get tired of it just go into a more safe mode...

hunting like the way I am telling you is a learned way to hunt over many year's....but it is prodctive and this machine even makes it more productive..

It's the type of machine I have wanted for at least a decade.. just for iron resolution hunting/unmasking....I myself have a very specific need for it in the approcah to hunting I am doing...This style is very cumbersome and sometimes not very fruitful but then sometimes it's a door opener..It has to be site specific for ultimate use of the exact setting's...but through trial and error such sites will reveal themselves...

Every site I hunt is different ...different attack plans must be used to unlock the secrets' of the site's..

The DEUS / or GMP is a far superior tool for a person looking to eek out more from a dead site...Well the site is not dead just the technology to bring it alive is...

I would think this machine would make the ultimate training/seminar type machine for teaching purposes.....What better way to show people what really happens with reactivity being sped up or silencer being used or certain freq's reacting to targets certain way's.I have been thoughly impressed with it because it validates ideas and theorys I have had for year's[right and wrong] on what if this was like this or this was like this...

I think it's one of the reason I like it is becasue I can experiment and validate what I am thinking to a degree... Before I had to try another detector to see..Now all the detectors are with me at once...I mean they really are...

Again the Guy who made the DEUS and XP line of detectors...I think his name is Alain Loubert...Is very in touch with what it takes to un-mask ...

His approach to detector design communicates volumes about his dream/vision/quest without even talking to him...

Keith

Thanks Keith!!! You have been very helpful. Yes, already this unit has opened up sites that I had declared as hunted out. It's for real!!!! This unit will make a believer out of a skeptic. I already know THAT much about it.I have been hunting with it almost exclusively since I bought it. And it has found me some good finds in those sites that I had just quit going to. This unit hits on a ten inch dime in my garden very good. AS LONG AS I HAVE THE GROUND BALANCE CORRECT! When I first used the unit at my test garden, on that first day I owned it, I didn't ground balance it and I started swinging over my test garden targets with no signal!!! Or maybe a faint iron sound. If that. I then ground balanced it (after learning how by reading the manual) and it hit all my buried targets. And then I noticed that if I set it three or four points below the ground balance that it pumps to, I get notable additional depth!!! I then tried that trick on my AT Pro, and noticed that it also benefited from a tad lower ground balance.
Anyway Keith, I appreciate your time. I usually don't talk this much but I am sure glad that you posted and opened my eyes to some additional knowledge of this machine.

Very well said..... Keith.

Thanks alot Keith, educational as always.

I havent any spectacular storys...yet w the DEUS, but I have found a number non-ferrous targets mingled in with iron. Last week, while hunting a 200yr old house site I found a little brass gear wheel to a pocket watch, smaller than a dime with 3 little rusted nails in the same hole. I was impressed.

Im still trying to figure out the rusty bottle caps though. Even with disc on 6.5 I still cant tell the difference. I cant wait for the new software, its supposed to address that.

Very informative thread and know zilch about the unit...However don't you think a buried object for perhaps 100 years is going to be a different ballgame.

My suggestion one of these days take a day off from detecting and do a day experimenting in the field...Once you hit a deep target mark it with a golf tee and try different settings to see which gives the best depth audio etc and adapt this info into you next day of detecting. Now this is just not for one unit but for the one you use and a day of experimenting can equate to more and better finds throughout the year. Sure a program might work well for a person in Oregon with a natural fast swing and Mickey Mouse headphones and excellent hearing and tonal perception but might fizzle in your neck of the woods when you combine the above.
Heck when I was in the Army and took some training in Texas the ground, trees, humidity, mineralization etc. were certainly very different from my home State of Pa.And lets dial in type of headphones and hearing abilities and you see we have a different ballgame.

Some very good info.

Reminds me of 3 targets I dug one time. Was running disc at 6.0 in nail pits. Got the good tone, but the meter read 4. Retrieved 2 buttons circa 1790 at one site and an 1867 nickel at another. Tone is the key---not the meter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2015 02:59AM by tnsharpshooter.

Glad u dug this up, dont recall reading it before. Keiths responses are fantastic. I know I eill have as nother Deus, maybr this winter, im in no hurry at the moment.

All:

Great conversation. Thank you.

So, I am attempting to summarize what was discussed into two summary programs: One for Iron and one for Open Field. I am intrigued by a couple of things.

I hunt in good ground (low iron, clay)

I know there are masked targets by iron.

Only targets found recently have been deep (whispers) or shallow and barely missed by a coil. Hence my reason for purchasing he Deus

Typical depth of finds in in the 10-13" range

Mostly bullets with occasional Button

Very used to hunting in All-Metal with XLT. I like the 2-Tone Dig/No-Dig strategy.

Don't mind hearing the iron

Sites are open and some have heavy nail/fence areas (few old homes) with little modern trash

I don't mind digging occasional nails and Frags are found at the site

EMI is very Low

I would like feedback that what I have summarized is correct. See two programs listed below (based on this conversation). Note, I have give FULL credit to the geniuses in the thread!

KB/Keith Modified Nail Infest Program

DISC -4.5; Tones - 2; Tone 1 = 202 kHz; Tone 2 = 757 kHz; Tone Break - Low Tone = 0-4.5; Hi Tone = 4.5-99 ; Reactivity - 2; Silencer - -1; Frequency - 18 kHz; Sensitivity - 98; TX Power - 3; Sweep - Real slow

KB/Keith Modified Nail Infest Program

DISC - 4.5; Tones - 2 - Tone 1 = 202 kHz; Tone 2 = 757 kHz; Tone Break - Low Tone = 0-4.5; Hi Tone = 4.5-99; Reactivity - 0-1; Silencer - -1; Frequency - 4 or 8kHz; Sensitivity - 98; TX Power - 3 ; Sweep - Real slow

JcKays,

I don't understand what you are asking.

I wil say for Deus users, this thread contains about as much good material as I've seen posted to point a person in the right direction for squeezing the performance out of the Xp Deus. And this based on my use/testing.

Keith has provided some reaaaaal good info.

Experienced and new Deus users should definitely read---or brush up.

TNSS. Good to hear from you. I hope all is well.

I agree 100% this one of the best articles on the Deus I have read in some time. I read the string several times, took notes, and even summarized the data into a small document for use in the field.

What I was trying to do was to simplify the wealth of knowledge into a program based on all the discussions. I see two programs given my hunting conditions: Nail/Fence Infested Area and Open Field with low-moderate iron Fence/Nail. At my sites, I am trying to squeeze a much depth as possible, yet keep enough fast response to pull out keepers.

Of course, I would ultimately customize them further with real world experience. I just want to make sure they make sense before going to the field.

jckays

I believe the info provided in this thread is for version 2.0

There is a good post/thread about version 3.2----When I find it I'll post link here.

[www.dankowskidetectors.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2015 10:10PM by tnsharpshooter.

[www.dankowskidetectors.com]

[www.dankowskidetectors.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2015 10:24PM by tnsharpshooter.