The More I Read The More I Hesitate To Buy...Remarks From A CTX Beach Hunter About It Vs His BBS Units At The Beach, & CTX Not Hitting Test Garden As Well, & A Few Other Remarks On FBS Vs BBS

These are just a few quotes or concerns I dug up in relation to the CTX versus the Xcal or Sovereign BBS machines at the beach, or in relation to FBS versus BBS at certain beaches as well as in certain mineralized grounds experienced by *some people*, including myself. I know I found my FBS machines did not perform as well for me on my beaches or at my land sites, which all have minerals that vairy from low to high levels. Much more "chattey" and unstable with more finicky sensitivity settings to keep things tolerable, and I never could get the depth I'm getting with my GT.

I'm not the first person to say this, as I can dig you up quotes from various forums from people who own FBS and BBS units who have said the same things, both on land or at the beach. Feel free to ask, as I already dug some up a few months back, and they are much more specific about this FBS/BBS thing than the ones posted below.

True everywhere? No, not saying that. But with the certain mixtures of minerals on land (and perhaps combined with salt water at the beach) BBS does seem to run smoother and get deeper for some, including me. My only theory on this is perhaps the higher frequencies being used (or at least the higher ones being paid attention to by FBS as some say the TX signal is exactly the same on FBS/BBS) versus BBS might in fact be having trouble with certain mineralized conditions. That's my theory, anyway, right or wrong. Has to be something going on as I've read too many people saying the same things I've experienced with BBS and FBS. I've owned three FBS machines over the years and gave them plenty of time and settings, yet the GT easily is smoother and deeper *in my soil*. I do, however, have high hopes that an FBS machine with a good aftermarket coil might soak in less "ground stew", and thus have better performance in my soil. For that reason down the road I'll add another used EII with a 12x10 to my line up to sit along side my GT.

So, here's a few small recent quotes in relation to the CTX. Also a few bits about FBS and BBS, but not as in depth as some others I dug up a few months back (and can post if you want)...

“I think the verdict is yet be rendered on the CTX.

I have read tons of post's on the forum's and it's getting mixed reviews.”

“There is no way anyone or any machine that runs on FBS can convince me it,s better then BBS what i have is just fine for finding relics and coins and bling in the ground and Salt Water BEACH !! period”

“Truer words were never spoken. BBS is the ONLY way to go on any salt water beach!”

“I have a CTX 3030 and have just about 70 hrs hunt time with it. It will not replace my Excalibur or GT all three will have there place in the quest for ________? For those hunting the beaches the CTX 3030 reacts to the waves more than the GT or Excal. It will not stabilize in the wash . Others have got it better than I. I have not tried all the combo's of settings. I have not dug any target that the GT or Excal would not have found. It may just be me but I accually think I might be missing targets that tend to be deep. While I have fixed the headphone problem many have had. I can finally hear the threshold in the surf with out over blasting it. I am not sure I will everhear a threshold break I get with the Excalibur.I am still confused about the test I have run in my 20yr old coin garden.My GT and Excal. can hear most of the targets buried. The CTX has a really tough go of hearing any. I really wish I could share more info on that but I have lost the info key to the garden and really don't know what coins are at what depth or angle. Do they make a detector to find lost paper? I say i will need several months of testing before I can really make a call either way.”

So, I'm not out of the CTX buying market just yet, but I still haven't seen that jaw dropping thing in terms of depth or separation that makes it a must buy yet. Nothing really yet that another Minelab with a good aftermarket coil probably can't do in terms of depth or separation.The added remarks above about it's performance at the beach with waves, as well as the test garden remarks are yet more I've read on the net to make me think long, hard, and twice before pulling the trigger on one. I'm just not seeing anything new here myself yet, and I await tests against a GT, Etrac, or Explorer with a good aftermarket coil in both depth and separation. That is a much less expensive option if it works. I can tell you my GT with 12x10 is matching an Etrac in the field when compared on badly masked or super deep targets checked against each other. For that reason, I urge any of you guys out there with an Explorer, Etrac, or Sovereign to consider coil choice before deciding to shell out the cash. At least wait for some in depth you tube comparisons to each other in that respect in the field on undug targets. I can tell you a good aftermarket coil can make a world of difference. It has for me, and saved me a bundle, because had I not seen what the 12x10 did with my own eyes and ears I would long since have upgraded to an Etrac. I see no need to, and maybe you won't either, if you put the right coil on your machine.

A few more tid bit quotes I saw on the net today...

"Pretty Sure the CTX is going to get benched for Beach Hunting. Don't get me wrong it can be used on the beach. It finds targets and does just fine it will hold its own with the top line of detectors. Call me old school but I want the machine to tell me what the target is. Not me setting the tones for the targets. I currently have it set so all target in the 11-?? 12-?? 13-?? all read high, while 1-??-10-??read lower and then 14-?? thought35-?? read another lower tone. That's a big problem with me. 12-13 is a nickle nice loud tone dig it goooooood! dime same way quarter same way pennie same way pull tab, pop top, can slaw, bits of copper,beer,foil cans ,screws should I continue. With the GT and Excalibur the tones were caused by the target you can clearly tell a piece of foil from a gold ring simply in cleaness! Same with all the targets they all have the own quirts ya I dug them anyway one never knows.But I was 98% sure of what was coming out of the hole. Now I haven't a clue whats coming out. I have never dug as many round foil drink tops then this last 70 hours of hunting. GT and Excal just never heard them the same way. I am going to 100 hours before I come back home! IMHO"

...

"Looking at all the video,s on U Tube and seeing it in action on the beach yesterday beach hunting salt water it seem,s even the experts can not quite the machine down in moving water like wave breaks there biggest complaint spending more time trying to adjust it with no fix , it does find stuff mostly a big pile of lead sinkers because he could not tell the difference in sounds like a few other machines he owns that can most say, and these guys have around 30 years experience each water hunting, IMHO to many things to play with and adjust , in calm bay water it works fine as far as noise . Glad i have my GT no hassle."

Don't you just love it when the hype around a new detector finally settles down and reality sets in?

I really think this hurts new detectors. Remember the AT Pro? They almost had that thing scanning thorugh solid rock before it even got released. Expectations get set so high (often egged on by the manufacturer), that when it fails to meet our wildest expectations, people turn on it.

Not saying that in your case Critterhunter, you are justing insights, but the quotes you pulled have proven once again that its best to wait six months on any new detector. By then the truth is usually revealed.

Smudge hit the nail on the head relative waiting....after a while the fellas will learn their units and the good and bad will come out..give and takeaways on any unit old or new and that goes for particuliar settings also...I am sure in time the new units hitting the bricks will find their place in hobby but right now a lot of ?????....
Heck the original CZ6 from 20 odd years ago was user friendly as could be but took me 6 months to feel comfortable with it and add all the bells and whistles and may be longer than that for many.

For me even with the weight and ergonomics issues Explorer series was hard to beat for silver coins but judging by the used ones for sale it tells me lots of new units and users will start posting and we all know the credible critiques so inded test the water temp before jumping in...

So far, I like my CTX better than my ETRAC. From what I've experienced so far it hits harder on deep targets, runs more stable at higher sensitivity a lot better balanced.
I'll be water hunting for the first time this weekend so I'll see how it does compared to the Excalibur.

Some are saying it doesn't hit (or even CAN'T hit) deep targets as well as other Minelabs, while others claim it does hit better at depth in their soil (or at least IDs easier at depth), so that tells me there might be issues with certain mineralized grounds in relation to the BBS versus FBS thing, as many say BBS is deeper/smoother in certain land and beach sites.

I've read where somebody scanned the frequencies of FBS and BBS and he says they are both putting out the exact same spectrum of frequencies. If that's true, then perhaps the difference is in just what frequencies they are differently paying attention to. It might be that BBS is keying in on more of the lower frequencies, while FBS is looking more at the higher range up to or near 100khz? If that's true, then that might be the answer in some situations, as I know all the high frequency machines I ever owned got poor depth in my soil and were a bit unstable, while the deepest machines I ever used (until I got into Minelabs) were low frequency machines.

I just read elsewhere where a CTX owner said it's not giving him the audio harmonics of his BBS machine while beach hunting, where he claims to be able to tell the difference in sound from various junk items such as the foil tops from drink bottles, and certain other junk, from that of a potential gold ring. I figured it wouldn't have the audio of the BBS machines, as both the Explorers I owned and the Etrac I've used here and there do not have nearly as good of audio detail, length, and harmonic "quality" of the Sovereign. Even the "long tones" or whatever it's called setting doesn't compare to the length/detail I get with my GT.

I still watch and wait for a GT, Etrac, or Explorer compared to it on undug targets using a good aftermarket coil for better depth and separation such as the 12x10, as well as how another Minelab with a small coil does against it in really bad masking situations (if the 12x10 can't keep up in that respect, but I bet it will keep up, as the 12x10 is simply amazing in how tight it's DD line is). Even if the CTX is better than another machine at unmasking (actually it should be called separation) using a similar sized large coil to the 11" Pro Coil, then if another machine hammers it when using a small coil such as the S-5, 6" Excelerator, 8x6, or so on, then there's the option right there for outstanding can't-be-beat unmasking (separation) ability. I doubt it will outshine a 12x10, but for sure I'll lay my money on the table in terms of an S-5 or something blowing the doors off it in separation/unmasking. That's where true unmasking ability is made, because regardless of how much electronics you cram in the box you can't separate what the coil can't see separately. And, those little coils get some amazing depth. I've heard of coins at 10" with the 8x6, and my S-5 I think will easily hammer them at probably at least 9" based on what I've seen and dug so far. For that reason, I wait...Because it's a MUCH cheaper option to buy say a bigger/deeper coil to make any better ability to hit harder or ID better targets at depth (if the CTX does indeed have that edge in ID at depth, at least in some soils, and maybe not others) a non issue for a GT, Etrac, or Explorer, and also that if the 12x10 can't hold it's ground in seperation/unmasking, then it's still much cheaper to buy a small coil as well and then have that base covered too.

I've seen what a good aftermarket coil (the 12x10) can do to take an "old" machine and improve it's depth and separation, to where I see no difference in ability to a flagship Minelab on targets tested in the field. For that reason, I say the wise choice is to wait and see how things pan out, because it's a heck of a lot cheaper to buy an extra coil or two, then it is to spend $2500. That's where I'm at right now, and until I see jaw dropping performance in depth/separation that another Minelab can't do with the right coil, I'm not budging.

You know, the thing that keeps bouncing around in my mind that is really holding me back, besides some who say they aren't all that impressed with their CTX compared to their other machines here and there, is that little quirk of human nature that tends to try to justify a large cash out lay for something. People often aren't even aware they are doing it when comparing things against each other. The mind tries to justify the extra money spent on something and wants to believe it's the best thing since sliced bread. That's why they do blind test studies in medicine for that very reason, because if the nurse knew she was giving you the real pill her attitude alone could alter the results.

And also because of another reason that also matters in this. That being the plesebo effect. People are told something is going to work or work better and they believe it. Somebody takes brand X detector that has been hyped beyond belief to their pounded out sites they've given up on. Because they believe they'll do better with it that mindset alone came make an old site seem to come alive again. If you believe something will unmask better or get deeper...If you believe that it will...Then you're likely to take a chance on a super deep whisper or a junky one in heavy trash and it can turn out to be a keeper. Then the mind says "wow, I must have missed that one before because this machine made it sound so much better."

Did it really? Are you sure about that, or are you just taking chances on things you normaly wouldn't dig because you believe in the abilities of a new machine, or even because you don't know the machine well yet and so are taking chances on more targets than you normaly would because you don't know enough about what is "dig worthy" yet, and thus haven't fallen into any bad habits. People who get more experience on a machine tend to fall into bad habits and stop digging iffy targets unless they meet a certain criteria of what they think they know *might* be a coin, and thus ignore the other iffy coin signals that they think they know the machine enough to be sure those are going to be junk. That's why often you hear about a guy with a cheap machine making a great find at a park you've long since given up on. He didn't know enough to have your mindset that that site was useless to hunt anymore, and he also doesn't know enough to know his cheap machine is pointless to use there, and he also didn't know enough to not dig a certain target because experience has told others it's not worth digging.

I just saw a show the other day on TV where they took the same bottle of wine but put a plain cheap looking label on one bottle and a expensive looking label on the other. The people tried the cheap label wine first and then the expensive one, and they often would say the one with the expensive label tasted much better. Perception is a large part of human nature. I'm not saying people will purposely try to justify the cost of some new detector they just bought by saying it is deeper or seperates better, but I am saying that they'll often believe that without knowing that belief and the wish to justify a purchase can bias actual results. Because you believe brand X detector is deeper it can seem to ID at depth better, and because you think brand X will separate better you'll think it does an easier or better job at that. Perhaps it does get a tad deeper or separate a tad easier, but even if it does by a tad a person can perceive it to be much better at that than it actually is, when the truth is much more subjective and less clear cut than that. People will often perceive bigger differences in results without knowing it just to justify purchasing a product.

Now, what's my whole point here? My point is that I take any stellar depth or separation reports on a new machine with a huge grain of salt. I do NOT believe people are lying or claiming things that aren't true on purpose. And I'm not saying those claims aren't true either. I'm just saying that the only thing that will prove things to me one way or the other are actual on video tests of one machine against another on undug targets. And, both machines have to be set up equally well and using the same coils. And, even if there is a difference, I want to see comparisons with the "old" machine using various good aftermarket coils. I've seen enough to know that that can make all the difference in a machine's performance to where a flagship machine praised for it's depth and unmasking ability can't do any better job on the targets we've compared in the field to a "lowly" older machine with less bells and whistles. I might add that flash has a lot to do with perception. The more bells and whistles something has the more willing people are to believe that it's better at doing something. Not always, but it is a handy way to justify a more expensive price tag and get the customer to bite.

Back to the CTX topic...The other thing that bothers me is the lack of aftermarket coils for it. It sounds like Minelab has encoded the coils to where nobody can make their own for it. And, if they are able to license the technology to make their own down the road, I bet those coils are going to be mega-pricey due to the extra electronics for that in the coil as well as the waterproof connection thing that Minelab also has a patent on. This is one of my biggest hurdles to jump in deciding to buy one. I mean, how many GT, Explorer, or Etrac guys do you know that own other Minelab coils other than the stock one? For a small coil for heavy trash they don't usually buy an 8" Minelab coil. Instead, they go for the 5" Sunray, the 8x6 SEF, or even the 5 or 6" Excelerator. Same deal with bigger coils. Minelab doesn't make a bigger coil for the GT or Explorer/Etrac than the 10 or 11" coils, but just the same many people prefer the 12x10, S-12, 13" Ultimate, WOT, 15x12, etc...Over the stock coil for even every day hunting. Yes, Minelab is making a 17" coil for the new machine, but I wouldn't want that coil in my soil, as I found the 15x12 got less depth than stock due to my minerals. Instead I prefer the 12x10 because it is still deeper than stock in my soil. My point is that the lack of a large selection of good/cheap aftermarket coils to suit your specific soil and needs is a big negative to me. That alone could be reason enough for me to not buy it because, regardless of if it does separate better or not, I doubt it will beat another Minelab with say a 6" coil in that respect. And, in terms of *some* saying it has better ID at depth, at least in certain soils, my money is still on a good aftermarket coil such as the 12x10 making that a non-issue...At least in some of our soils.

Good post, critterhunter, with alot of truth in it. I don't know if the CTX is a big leap forward, or just a few tweaks placed in a snazzy package, but it will certainly take alot of time before the truth can be ascertained; I agree with you that RIGHT NOW, during the "hype" period, is the WORST time to try and discern "truth."

Further, experience with a unit is a BIG deal, and not many have much, at this point, given the newness of the CTX. If you asked me to evaluate my Explorer a month after I got it, my "evaluation" would have been very different than it would be now that I have some experience with the unit.

Steve

Since the thread header also includes discussion of FBS and BBS in respect to each other *for some people at certain sites*, I thought I'd include a few other recent remarks I saw elsewhere in this respect. This is not to bash FBS, as I'd take any of Minelabs FBS machines over most other machines on the market, but just to point out that for some of us there does indeed appear to be an issue with it in certain grounds, where BBS runs smoother and deeper. I've heard so much talk on the net about FBS being the answer to all life's problems, so I just want to point out that it's not that way for all of us. A little anti-propoganda can't hurt to fight all the cheerleading is the way I look at it...:')

“Yup. Most of the silver coin i find is between 9-11 inch range. I found a merc. Dime at 11-1/2 inches deep. with the explorer, And the deepest coin i have ever found was a indian head cent at just over 14 inches and i was using the sovereign GT. The sovereign is a deeper detector then the explorer, just my opinion, but the explorer is smarter.”

...

“The title of this thread should be deep everything! I ran the ETrac since it came out and got my hands on the GT about 4 months ago and never looked back period. The GT doesn't need a lesche it needs a stainless steel scoop to dig with. In my experience with six minelab machines and a few others the GT has beat them all in depth. It will find stuff even the ETrac won't find in heavy mineralization. The GT when ran very slow will find stuff no other detector will if you ask me. Tiny small targets to anything above. I've never seen the ETrac or Explorers or any of the Xterra's do what it is doing for me. Deep is relevant also. In black sand iron rich red clay it shut all my other detectors down. The GT when ran snails pace will find targets all over the place in this stuff. The machine will be total silent nulled out and will sound off when ran over and accepted target, anything above iron simply. Being relevant, depth is no wheres as great as in good ground, but other machines have left a bevy load of targets in the stuff I'm hunting, I mean a lot of them per they were not seeing the targets. These places have turned into my gold mine! Coins too. What made me realize this is the loads of 1970's pulltabs present. Lot's of them on hard hunted a lot places. In a time when everyone wants to know almost for certain what they are digging before they exert the energy with a lot of machines. The GT puts them to shame. They are missing great targets wanting to know, as I was, with all my other machines. The new machines with whitewalls and curb feelers and pretty screens are causing many to leave stuff in the ground. The GT will find them. Lot's of horsepower in that little blue control box, no bells and whistles.”

I might even dig up a few more quotes from guys who have similar things to say *in their soil or sand*. I remember one guy who tested his FBS and BBS machines on several gold rings he buried in the sand at depth. He said the BBS machines did a much better job of hitting and sounding off to them. Then there's several others I've read who say FBS is just too unstable and noisy for them on the beach and doesn't seem to get the same depth for them there. I remember one guy who had 3 or 4 flagship machines. A flagship FBS unit, a GT, and two other flagship models from other companies at an old farm yard. He said none of the machines he used in a SMALL area around the back door were giving good locked on signals due to the minerals. He then fired up the GT as a last resort and it was banging hard and solid on stuff right out of the gate and pulled him some nice finds out of there. He said he's never experienced that before, but at this site BBS was the smoothest and hardest lock on targets out of all these flagship machines he tried there.

Now, I'm sure for many others there is no difference in their soil or sand, but I'm just throwing this stuff up there to point out that for at least some of us BBS is the smoothest/deepest detector we've ever used. That said, make sure you like limited simple controls before buying a Sovereign or Excal. You don't have any fancy features that can be useful in specific (but rare) situations.

Hi Critter,I only had a GT for a short period,but had the xs for about a decade. I had acouple explorers,but I like the simplicity and the tones of the Sov soooo much better. And when I hunted withall my explorer buddies,I can never remember checking one of their deep signals that I couldn't hear. I do remember one time,one of the explorer guys wasn't sure if he was getting iron falsing or a deep coin signal . I checked it,said iron,and sure enough,was iron. We have a ghetto park in good old Stockton,Ca we affectionately call Wino park. Honestly,you can not move your coil more than an inch or two without hitting thunderbird caps and pulltabs...its insane. But I've got some unbelievable barbers out of there using the Sov...Is get just a glimpse of a silver hit,and just dig a big plug and sort through the trash till I findthe goody. To give ya an idea how bad this place is,I've cut out a 2ftx2ft plug,and using a probe dug out all metal,and found coins. Another time,me and my explorer bud, dug every signal around the dirt ring of a single tree. After a few hours,we had over 40 old coins. Keep up the sov info,its giving me the it h,plus I'm learning.

AH Come on critter I know you want one. Just go ahead and buy it already! Me thinks you protest too much.

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AH Come on critter I know you want one. Just go
> ahead and buy it already! Me thinks you protest
> too much.

Harold - You beat me to it. I had been thinking the same thing "Just order it already and stop saying why you won't as no one has asked" ;-)

Critter - Would be nice to see you findings. I'm having a ball thus far with mine but need to do more hunting and less testing (miss that pinpointer, can't hunt without it easily).

Albert

Critterhunter, it does seem like about a million words as to why you haven't bought the CTX 3030. You have put a LOT of thought into this.

I get the impression your head is trying very hard to convince your heart why you don't want to buy it.

But you're a top-of-the-line guy and now you're rolling with yesterday's technology.

You know you better snap up that snazzy new Minelab ASAP, before somebody comes onto your detecting turf and starts target tracing those goodies you're missing out of the ground!

Such "books"!---Nobody ever accused Critterhunter of being a man of few words! ha ha------Where you live Critterhunter?---I'm comin over with my CTX to trace out all those coins you missed! ha ha

After reading all the posts here is the one that really made a light go on and is surely a truism from Steveg....

"If you asked me to evaluate my Explorer a month after I got it, my "evaluation" would have been very different than it would be now that I have some experience with the unit."

Hey, I'm just saying don't believe the hype until you see actual field tests of two machines on video against each other. Remember the big T2/F75 stir a few years back? Some people simply refused to believe any of the initial reports of EMI or mineralization issues and bashed the heck out of others for even bringing them up. These days you don't hear much argument otherwise about that past issue, do you? Same deal with the CTX. Countless people about peed their pants over the GPS having the potential resolution down to inches to not miss grid rows on land as well as water. Well, it ain't got that good of resolution, and the GPS won't work under water either. Some of us tried to point out that inexpensive consumer level GPS wasn't able to do nearly that kind of resolution, and that the ones that were were very expensive, bulky, and used a second large RF antenna that you had to subscribe to a service to in order to get resolution down to inches...Meant for the farming industry and other applications. Still, people refused to believe, or I should say they wanted to believe, otherwise....And now we see what the true reality of that is.

GPS in a detector? I resent the extra weight and cost of that. Many phones now have GPS in them, and most guys carry a phone when hunting, so why the need for it in a detector? Why not the ability to make phone calls with a detector then too? Where do you draw the line between useful feature and flashy gimmick designed to catch the eye of the customer and to justify a high price tag? That's one of the main things they bothers me here. They should have been more worried about price and weight then stuffing as much flash as they could into a machine. That's one of the reasons I left Whites, as they seemed to tried to justify price with endless features when all most serious hunters care about is raw performance.

That's also why I've left three Explorers and now use a GT. Sure, some days I miss a computer, but in terms of depth or separation those are the only two big issues I care about. I'll pick up another Explorer for days I want to use a computer screen as I miss that some days, but in terms of performance flash doesn't do a darn thing.

As I said, I just saw where they stuck an expensive label on one bottle of wine, and a cheap plain looking one on another. Both bottles had the same wine in them, but most everybody said the one with the expensive flashy label had way better taste. It's just human nature to have perceptions like that. 99% of detecting is having confidence in your machine. If you believe it has special powers then you'll do better with it in the field. Just look at fishing...Often the lure being used isn't the best of the site, but a guy who has confidence in it will often do much better than using a "better" lure that he doesn't have a dime's worth of as much confidence in. Same thing with detectors. A large part of what you think a machine is so much better at isn't so much based in reality, but rather based in your attitude when using it. So, until I see more video side by side stuff and less *perception*, I ain't forking out that kind of money. It's got to prove to me it's worth it, not the other way around. :')

OK-----I'm goin huntin!---wink & grin!

I'm probally one of the few who could care less about the GPS system and doubt I will ever use it. I don't even water hunt. The 3 things that attracted me to the ctx 3030 are balance as the E-trac was wearing out my shoulder. Water proff as it is nice to hunt on those on and off drizzle days and not have to worry about it getting wet. And lastly the target trace feature which should give me an edge in pulling coins out of iron. I also could care less about the color screen I would rather have more Battery life,But hey thats just me.

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm probally one of the few who could care less
> about the GPS system and doubt I will ever use it.
> I don't even water hunt. The 3 things that
> attracted me to the ctx 3030 are balance as the
> E-trac was wearing out my shoulder. Water proff as
> it is nice to hunt on those on and off drizzle
> days and not have to worry about it getting wet.
> And lastly the target trace feature which should
> give me an edge in pulling coins out of iron. I
> also could care less about the color screen I
> would rather have more Battery life,But hey thats
> just me.

Our sentiments match pretty much. I did try out the GPS and it was accurate to within 10 feet of so is my estimate. It could be helpful when hunting larger spots and to get to spots you find online - which could be nice. I don't think it added weight to the unit though and regarding cost - I'm sure Minelab added a bit to the final price.

I just like the balance and speed of the unit. I don't like the lack of aftermarket coils - very troublesome actually. The target trace feature is nice (down to 6" or so) and in that last sense can be used as a bit of a depth confirmation (maybe not on super small targets though.) The unit does seem bulky and I would have MUCH PREFERRED what most of us were expecting - A really light and fast E-Trac/CTX, maybe rain proof with a clock and target trace. I do think Minelab missed the boat on that (unless they release another unit later and then they are going to have a lot of pissed of customers with more cute marketing.) I guess they feel the E-Trac is staying where it is and they don't want to create too much competition for it, so they released a very expensive unit. I really like the unit, but do feel it is overpriced (but I loved the E-Trac enough to spend more to basically get a better balanced one, that is also much faster and with a few new features.)

Albert

Everything made of matter weighs something on this planet, and so that includes GPS. :') Point is that just points out the anti-cost saving, anti-weight saving mindset to throw everything against the wall and hope it sticks. That's why Whites lost their biggest fan several years back, right around the release of the DFX. Too many hoops to jump through to get best results at any given site in terms of set up, and also some questionable features like on their flagship model these days. I never really thought of Minelabs, even their computerized models, having a tasteless amount of useless flash in terms of what features they could cram into a machine. Most of the real performance factors are already handled by the machine (unlike a Whites), and so there was just a nice bit of "icing on the cake" in terms of some extra features to tweak various factors revolving around the already solid foundation of automatic "performance" that was already being done for you without any real need for major input in those factors. You don't have to "sample" the ground or do other various things to insure top performance at a site with one, and I didn't feel they were crammed with too many useless features. A tad more then perhaps they'd cross that line in my book. But, along comes the CTX, and right away what sticks it's thumb in my eye is GPS. For what? Like I said, if many phones already have GPS in them, then why not the ability to call somebody on your detector? Where is that line crossed from useful feature to tasteless gimmick designed to make people shell out a few more bucks in cash?

For me, I don't want my detector telling me where I am, making me coffee, fixing me a sandwhich, waking me up with an alarm in the morning, or reminding me that I forgot to brush my teeth. All I want is depth, separation, tone alerts, and good VDI resolution. Beyond that I can take care of the rest.

"For me, I don't want my detector telling me where I am, making me coffee, fixing me a sandwhich, waking me up with an alarm in the morning, or reminding me that I forgot to brush my teeth. All I want is depth, separation, tone alerts, and good VDI resolution. Beyond that I can take care of the rest".

Me too, but I would add lite wt.

A GPS chip's weight is negiligable. The weight of the CTX is due to it being a water unit imo, not a less than 1 oz GPS chip. ehehehh
Hey, I don't like the extra cost it added. I'm not a gadgets guy even. I don't have a smart phone so I will use it to take me to spots I find on google maps. Useful yeah, but not at all why I bought it. I prefer something simple with 5-10 options.

I liked the V3i but it was a bit of overkill. Really nice screen though. The CTX's screen doesn't have a contrast control and seems a bit flat. The VID numbers are at the top and have a transparent box around them. Wrap around from iron (bottle caps) gets hidden behind there and that was annoying. I do hope they add an update adding some contrast because for a color screen it is kind of flat. To be fare I have hunted in sunlight though, perhaps at another time it will be better (but I've heard others mention this as well).
Nothing deal breakingly bad with the CTX, just some average complaints for me.

I do like the mode choices. Thus far I can see they do not respond the same with the same settings, so that is a nice thing to test out. I will do so tomorow ;-)

I love the clock, really. (except it gets hidden when VID numbers flash up there).

I think the CTX should have been priced around 1800 dollars, not 2500, waterproof and all.

Albert

I asked Minelab if/when we would be seeing a CTX 2020 and got a laugh...they said "just wait til you see the 4040" lol

Here's a common GPS chip priced at $16/each in a pack of 250 (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Maestro-Wireless-Solutions/A1084-B/?qs=GVJw2ce8vWzsvydRBb7icfYNFQz%252bT7NN7LCWXQ8hryU%3d). With dimensions of 1.9cm x 1.6cm x 0.24cm and using a density of silicon dioxide of 2.5 g/(cm^3), the weight calculates to be 1.8 grams or 0.004 lb.

Has anyone weighed the CTX battery pack and compared it to the rechargeable pack on the eTrac? The new CTX color screen will be power hungry and will contribute to the need for a larger and heavier battery compared to the eTrac's B&W display.

Let me tell you a little story. When I first floated balloons out on the net about the possiblity of trying to lighten up my GT with a few mods, I got snickers about things like "that mod will only save you a few grams or at the most an ounce here or there." Well people, let me tell you that it ALL adds up. I saved almost a pound and a half off the stock weight of the GT WITH the Digisearch meter, all by shaving a few ounces or grams "here and there" in building a lighter shaft, running a lipo in it, changing the hand grip, changing the arm cup, and so on. Point being that when you have a mindset to save weight (and cost) you will, but if you have the mindset to just throw anything against the wall that sticks...Well, all those gimmicks add up to a substantial more amount of weight AND price.

I'll never forget how some told me I'd never save enough weight to make it really matter. Despite that, with little tweaks here and there, here I am...Almost a pound and a half later. And I didn't even touch the control box, other than installing a small plug in the removable battery holder to plug a 3 cell lipo into, which I can easily move to the side and still run 8AA batteries in the regular alkaline holder it's in.

go-rebels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a common GPS chip priced at $16/each in a
> pack of 250
> (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Maestro-Wirel
> ess-Solutions/A1084-B/?qs=GVJw2ce8vWzsvydRBb7icfYN
> FQz%252bT7NN7LCWXQ8hryU%3d). With dimensions of
> 1.9cm x 1.6cm x 0.24cm and using a density of
> silicon dioxide of 2.5 g/(cm^3), the weight
> calculates to be 1.8 grams or 0.004 lb.
>
> Has anyone weighed the CTX battery pack and
> compared it to the rechargeable pack on the eTrac?
> The new CTX color screen will be power hungry and
> will contribute to the need for a larger and
> heavier battery compared to the eTrac's B&W
> display.


go-rebels-----I thought that was a good question you had about battery pack weights.----So I went out in my shop & weighed the re-chargeable battery packs of the CTX and Etrac.-----CTX pack- 9 1/2 oz.--Etrac pack-just a shade under 9 oz.---I consider my scales to be very accurate.--------Regards, Del

Thx Del. That's about 5%, less than what I expected given the color screen. Maybe a different chemistry?

Go-Rebels - Yeah, I thought it weighed the same as the E-Trac one as there isn't really much extra on it and it's 8 batteries also. I think the extra weight is by design. The carbon fiber shafts are VERY thin and extremely light. (You can almost push into it due to the thin-ness - but it is strong). The weight on the CTX is very much at the other end, and with intention (must be because of it's water unit status - too bad, that serves a minority of users). It's weird, it is odd, how much one end weighs compared to the other end. Must be that GPS chip ")

doesn't seem to have that WOW factor that would justify spending all that cash ,in the future is the killer machine that takes the big leap.

diggers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> doesn't seem to have that WOW factor that would
> justify spending all that cash ,in the future is
> the killer machine that takes the big leap.


I'm a bit split on your answer. On the one hand I do feel it is overpriced, by about 500 bucks (pick your currency). Price and value is extremely relative, it's how I view money in general - no absolutes. I don't have any other real hobby's so spending 2000 Euro (I got a great price) over the next how many years, is not a big deal. Now, if you compare it to other detectors - Holy Cow, that is alot. But compare it to golf or photography and it's quite bearable.

On the other hand, that target trace feature and the new sound profiles are very very interesting and it's too early to say anything, except that I am fascinated by the former. In time - target trace may very well be a wow factor (or not).

Albert