FWIW I'd hate to be answering the phone at First Texas this morning. ...

Just saying lol

Yea glad I talked to them last week.
They should receive mine today.

Maybe with all the complaints they will check mine over real well and send it back ready to go. I hope so anyway.

Hope the other guys get theirs fixed and FT cures its problems.

Sort of wonder how the two new engineers that got from another detector manufacturer feel about this mess.

voicemail

No one should hope they get it right..they need to get it right and it should have had all these problems fixed before the release and the update. That is not the way to run a company and it could hurt them when another machine comes out...

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

I went easy on them. I figured I would let you fellas have the first volley at 'em and then I'd hit 'em up after they knew what was coming.

It took talking to 4 different people though.

Daniel was who I ended up getting the most response from. If you're gonna call, I would ask for him up front to save you from playing the hot potato game, with you being the potato.

Daniel said that the new software updates were for stability, not raw sensitivity. He said the whole purpose was to be able to run the sensitivity at 99 with little to zero noise. And to expect an average of about 2 to 2.5 inches loss of depth from the previous versions of the F75 on coin size objects. He said that most people at best, could only run the previous models at around 80-85 sensitivity and retain stability. I told him about swapping coils yesterday with my friend, and how his detector lost some detection distance in air test with my coil...while mine gained some when going to his coil. He thinks the root cause of my particular problem may be a coil that needs calibrated closer to zero.

Right now I'm not exactly sure what is going on. They want me to send the unit back to check the calibration of the coil. So I will be sending it off tomorrow. I figured they would just want me to send the coil in for that, but they want me to send both the machine and coil in. Maybe that means they are going to calibrate that particular coil to my unit. Maybe it means they know there was a little problem with the software and didn't really want to say to start a wide spread panic, and are just gonna take care of it when it comes in. I don't really know. Can only speculate and guess.

Another part I'm speculating on...is that the reason we can run "99 sensitivity" is because of a major cut back of the throttle inside; maybe more so on the preamp gain. Sort of like a governor on a car. You may be holding it wide open on the floor but it ain't going fast as it could if it didn't have the governor on it. On the older F75s, the equivalent to the new version's 99 sensitivity would be 50 or so. That's what our data from the test yesterday showed. Again...just speculating based on our test results. It would lead you to believe that you are running it wide open, when really, you aren't. The only way you'd know any different is to compare it side by side with the old vs the new. Since all the new units are being "upgraded" whether they are the LTD versions or not, it will soon become the norm, and the pre upgrade F75s will be the next generation CZ3D 1021s.

Daniel wrote-

"Daniel said that the new software updates were for stability, not raw sensitivity. He said the whole purpose was to be able to run the sensitivity at 99 with little to zero noise. And to expect an average of about 2 to 2.5 inches loss of depth from the previous versions of the F75 on coin size objects. " : (

Well...in that case I'd rather use my DEUS or GoldMaxx.

Just tell them you want the same software as Keith.

Aaron

Aaron -- They had no idea what I was talking about when I brought that up about Keith's new detector and the video. It was the first they had heard of it. Or that's what they said anyway. It might have very well been...but regardless, it didn't get me anywhere.

So we should expect 2" less depth because of DST? I expect a depth loss when using FA.

The biggest reason I even considered the F75 platform was for depth and when FT said they cured most of the emi problems I bought in.

Would that depth loss be in 9.0 and not so on 9.1?

My dealer offered to take it back if I was not happy with it when it got back from FT.

May hold him to it. Mine arrived El Paso this am so I am not so patiently waiting its return.

Pac Man



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2014 06:03PM by Pac man.

If we should expect 2 inch less depth why dont they put that on the advert/flyer instead it says

''New Leading-Edge Technology!
These new features make the F75 more versatile with greater depth''

[www.fisherlab.com]

"...and to expect 2.0-2.5 inches loss of depth..."

Really? Is this the cost to quiet the machine down?

RIP American detector manufacturer's. Hate to say it, but we're seeing it happen. Im sure there not going away anytime soon, but innovation is dead, and it's cheaper to make a machine and source parts abroad. Been hearing for a few years about what FTP has coming and they lay 2 big eggs. A lighter CZ that uses a modern DD SEF/AT pro type coil could be a game changer if we see it. Whites V machines are capable but something just isn't right between the recovery/swing/processing... Holding out hope Garrett can extend the performance of the AT Pro into a high end VLF.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2014 06:13PM by deadlift.

This info fits well with my thoughts on what is happening with the sensitivity range. Someone should also compare the depth on the lowest setting on old vs new 75.

I think we will see that the new one has a greater resolution in the lower range of the scale aswell as beeing powered down on the top settings.

in disc mode 2f tones and bP process a quarter airtest 10-14" in the full sens range 0-99. In All metal, all processes the same, it was as low as 5-6" I believe. Its like there is no gain beyond the low gain max of 29 or something. I'll have to test closer. but 50-99 sense in all metal was no change in any process.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2014 06:32PM by detectingMO.

Deadlift,,,

Your dead on about the Whites ...great tweakable units and can be set up how ever you like on the V3..but theres something amiss for tight site work...somethng does not flow right for unamsking on the next level..

Good eye..

Keith

If the V s have had the MXT tone quality much of what you address would have been better. It is the digital tones that mess up the unmasking capability.

However, if you run 2,5 and in salt you may see some Explorer quality deep silvers popping up under carpets of tiny trash within ID reach.

Best about the V3i for me is the stereo mixed mode and going for out of ID reach targets though.

Hi,,,,Trust me they (FT) monitor web sites or have little stool pigeons that relay information about what's going on....These machines are manufactured for pennies on the dollar and are basically made in Mexico....How much quality do you want for around $1000.00????.... LoL....They could have Juan test these machines out for about $3.?? an hour or less than $30.00 a day and they would not have these discrepancies/differences we are reading about....These machines if manufactured correctly should mirror each other almost exactly.....In my opinion all they done was turn the sensitivity down and someone wrote another program/process....I also believe the lack of or less EMI is because they reduced the AVAILABLE overall sensitivity of the unit....I also believe DST (Digital Shielding Technology) only exists in the minds of the creators..LoL.. The key word here is DIGITAL or for lack of better words Rob Peter to pay Paul.....Maybe DST should stand for Done Suckered Them....LoL....JJ

I don't know about that(performance wise). The disc mode is pretty hot IMO. Keith's shows there is still plenty under the hood. Mine acts like DST is applied to both versions. 9.0 having more gain/sensitivity and 9.1 true dst with gain drop. Of course my modes are backwards from the manual.

they must at least finally be investigating or are very busy. I can't get through to support. Left a voice mail this morning and sent and email with 3 videos to better explain.

If I had both versions I would properly airtest them and adjust them to the exact same maximum airtest level by sensitivity with all other settings the same. Maximum dicided by the weakest version.

Then run them at that setting close to a known troublesome EMI source.

If DST has something to it it will maybe show itself right there.

Hi,,,I'm just trying to fire everyone up..LoL.. I'm sure they will get everything worked out to everyones satisfaction....JJ

I wouldnt trade my machines disc mode to get back my previous disc mode. My only problem is the A.M. mode is the mode I prefer to use relic hunting most of the time and it is currently worthless compared to what I had before. The new F75 properly tuned (like Keiths) looks like a great machine, the problem is getting one that is right.

beastdig Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wouldnt trade my machines disc mode to get back
> my previous disc mode. My only problem is the
> A.M. mode is the mode I prefer to use relic
> hunting most of the time and it is currently
> worthless compared to what I had before. The new
> F75 properly tuned (like Keiths) looks like a
> great machine, the problem is getting one that is
> right.

Exactly, someone else send theirs in first and take one for the team. I'm already going to lose my butt on this thing if I have to sell. lol

The dst doesn't really help against true EMI sources. At least with any magnitude. Does nothing for buried power and radio dog fences. It does eliminate circuit and mine EMI static though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2014 08:48PM by detectingMO.

No answer today from Fisher Support. Always busy. No call return from left voicemail. No email reply from support either. Nice...

Holidays - you can expect most businesses to be slower to respond than usual for the next couple of weeks - plus FT has this little problem of half the folks on this forum calling them up!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

jimmyjiver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,,,,Trust me they (FT) monitor web sites or have
> little stool pigeons that relay information about
> what's going on....These machines are manufactured
> for pennies on the dollar and are basically made
> in Mexico....How much quality do you want for
> around $1000.00????.... LoL....They could have
> Juan test these machines out for about $3.?? an
> hour or less than $30.00 a day and they would not
> have these discrepancies/differences we are
> reading about....These machines if manufactured
> correctly should mirror each other almost
> exactly.....In my opinion all they done was turn
> the sensitivity down and someone wrote another
> program/process....I also believe the lack of or
> less EMI is because they reduced the AVAILABLE
> overall sensitivity of the unit....I also believe
> DST (Digital Shielding Technology) only exists in
> the minds of the creators..LoL.. The key word here
> is DIGITAL or for lack of better words Rob Peter
> to pay Paul.....Maybe DST should stand for Done
> Suckered Them....LoL....JJ

That's some FUNNY xxxx JJ!!

The sad part is that it may be true (or at least some of it)!

LOL, JJ.

AH, I remember those ''fun'' First Texas days well! Thats when I said good bye First Texas and hello Minelab! Nuff Said.

A couple of points.

They mentioned that the cost of DST was a couple of inches, but it still seems there is a wide disparity between the units. Why? Tuning the coil?

Was it ever mentioned that giving up depth was the cost of quieting the units?

This sort of reminds me of the AT Pro launch. Noisy coils and units sent in to be what was the term? Denutted?

I am not an owner of the unit in question. I hope those that are see satisfaction.

with all the talk about 'tuning the coil' what if you've got a DST unit and buy a Fisher coil, say the 5 X 10 DD. It wouldn't be 'tuned' to your machine.
So, does that mean it's pretty much 'luck of the draw' as to how well it performs? Same for aftermarket coils?
I really wish one of the FT engineers would step up and lend a little clarity to what this upgrade actually entails. The 'do no wrong' attitude is pretty sad.

Keith, was your 5 X 10 DD factory tuned to your F75?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2014 03:09AM by canslawhero.

what im thinking is, by tuning the coil they mean making sure that the transmit and recieve r properly nulled.

See, I wondered the same thing about the coil tuning/calibration. I wouldn't think they would need my entire detector to check and see if a coil was bad or not. That leads to my speculation thing again that maybe there have been problems and they want to discreetly check the unit itself while putting the spotlight on the coil. It may not be that way at all. My unit may get there and they say everything is good on it...and they can't find anything wrong and ship it back the way it is. If that's the case, THAT is when the mean side of Daniel from Tennessee will come out.

Mine in DST mode just isn't 2 inches off from a non upgraded F75. Mine in "regular mode" is 2 inches off from my buddies non updated F75 LTD. ..and an additional 2 inches off in the DST mode. So all total, mine is around 4 inches off from a non upgraded unit on a US Quarter with DST activated. Maybe it's the coil...maybe it's not. We'll see. I'm guessing it will probably be after Christmas by the time I get mine back to see.