Whites MX SPORT

Warranties are an interesting and complex subject. It is common that many do not understand how they actually work. Much to do with common wording.

Some warranty facts to consider;

#1. No one has ever GAVE a warranty and no one has every been GIVEN a warranty EVER. Who pays for 100% of the warranty service? The buyer pays 100% at the time of purchase, built into the purchase price of the product. So comparing simular products, one with a longer warranty, the one with the longer warranty would sell at a lower price if they reduced their warranty length, YES. Some would debate, "I have worked for a lot of companies that never studied their warranty costs, so they didn't add that to their selling prices". Yes they did, they just did it with the simple math, (selling prices must exceed overhead).

#2. Extended warranties are always a great deal. False. Notice, those who sell extended warranties rarely if ever purchase one. Enough said.

#3. Lifetime, or long year warranties are always better than a few year warranty. False. The longer the warranty the more (likely to fail parts) are excluded. And if labor is not covered, you may as well not have a warranty, labor is the #1. service expense. Parts are inexpensive for the maker. And if there is a service fee for warranty service, likely that fee is high enough to cover their cost of that service (as if there is no warranty).

#4. If (material, workmenship, design) is going to go wrong, it will most likely occur in the 3-4 year of use. False. A flaw in (material, workmenship, design) if it happens, is most likely to occur in the first or seond season of use.

#5. What are the odds I WILL bennift from an extended warranty on a quality made product? About 1 in 1,000. What are the odds I WILL NOT bennifit from an extended warranty? About 999 out of 1,000. I like the 999 out of 1,000 odds a lot better! Whats the down side? Pay later MAYBE compared to pay now for sure.

#6. A long warranty indicate the maker has greater confidence in their product. FALSE. Exactly the oppisit is true, the longer the warranty the less confidence in the product. Long warranties are offered to be able to sell a product that is often perceived as not being quality/reliable. Hundy offers a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty for their $10,000 cars. BMW offers a three year 50,000 mile warranty for thier $60,000 cars. Which product is higher quality? Rolex offers a 5 year warranty with their $12,000 watches. A $12 watch comes with a lifetime warranty. Which is higher quality? The higher the confidence in the product, the less the warranty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2016 01:02AM by showard.

I guess the key phrase is "Quality Product".

And your auto comparison??
Well I can say with great certainty and I have bought 17 new vehicles and talked to other owners of many other vehicles and watched other vehicles as well.
My Toyota pick up sure didn't cost as much as many--but I'd put it up against any for the duration of 300,000 miles driven.
Actually the most expensive vehicle I ever bought new turned out to be the worst for service/ durability/quality.
So there's one theory down the tubes.

How does one know they are indeed getting?? A quality product.

I don"t think anyone in their right mind thinks warranties are " given".
When the term is usually used in a sentence the word given means most times offered.--- just the way people talk when discussing.

Your item #4 above-- that is the interesting one---- one I feel most detector companies play dodge ball with.

Well I guess if a manufacturer isn't planning on offering an extended warranty--- maybe a manufacturer could at least give a potential customer a ballpark worst case scenario dollar wise when they do have a problem outside of the warranty window.
Especially on a detector deemed " waterproof".

Realizing repair costs would vary according cost of living rates, etc.

Btw,
I guess this would also apply to detector dealers/ manufacturers offering supposed " free" coil or "bonus" coil then with their purchased detectors.
So using your logic noted above,, why didn't manufacturers instead of offering free coil or bonus coil-- just lower the sales price of original detector setup.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2016 02:44PM by tnsharpshooter.

Personally I'm not that worried about warranties when we're talking about Whites. I really don't think anyone can say a bad thing about their warranties. One time my cat got hold of my M6 and ate the rubber feet off and scratched the screen. Even out of warranty Whites sent me the parts at no cost. Also my first detector was a 3900D Coinmaster. One of my potentiometers went bad. Within 1 week I was sent a new one and I know that machine was around 8 years old. Again at no cost. I think when Tesoro went to a lifetime warranty they had a price increase? We all pay a little for our factory warranties however long they are..

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

Kenny,
It doesn" t matter to me one way or the other what a manufacturers does.

This discussion is overall good though.

Nothing like free advice/ recommendations either.

I noticed the gent above--- is he a White's Rep???

He never did really answer the question.

Meaning stating no extended warranty programs will be offered.

I may could infer such from his post-- but why not just state it up front.

And while I'm here a talking.

This White's forum they have.

How about open it up for other brands of discussion.

I know for a fact on Minelab's forum-- other brands get mentioned.

I do know if I made/ make a quality products-- I want them to be talked about among/with other detectors

Rather than being isolated.

This forum-- imagine how useless and bland it would be if we only talked about 1 brand of detector???



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2016 03:14PM by tnsharpshooter.

Relying on the good graces of a company will usually get you screwed. Water detectors, especially salt water detectors take a beating. The abrasiveness of sand destroys things. Look at Max's videos and his 3030 shaft. Sand ruins the seals of gaskets which leads to major problems. You can baby your detector and take the best care of it, but things can still go wrong. There is a comfort knowing a unit is protected by a warranty when you stick it in the water. I took a chance on a used Excal from Ebay. It took quite a while to recover financially from my own stupidity. Land detectors are something else entirely. They don't even belong in the same conversation about durability and warranties. Do yourself a favor. If you intend to stick a detector in water be sure the manufacturer has your back. Know if that warranty transfers to the second owner. Don't take the word of strangers when they say "never submerged." I hope Whites has a winner here. Time will tell. They deserve it in my book.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2016 03:16PM by goodmore.

Here's what is interesting.

Assuming this detector is overall a better detector than say the At Pro.
And this future detector is not released yet.

What if a manufacturer's Rep actually ask the following--- take a poll of sorts

For example, who would be interested in giving $50 for an additional year of warranty on the detector--- covering parts/ labor, and only return shipping cost to customer

Could there be an interest in such a thing.

I mean it cost nothing to ask the question

I want to be up front here.

I have no higher education degrees with Marketing.

I guess the gent don't have insurance on his autos or house either--- using his own logic and odds

Really extended warranty is nothing more than insurance??

Maybe a good question to ask here of Deus owners.

Which Deus owner here is ready to take a $100 check from Xp in exchange for your remaining warranty coverage being discontinued??
My answer is-- Hell no!!!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2016 04:00PM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's what is interesting.
>
> Assuming this detector is overall a better
> detector than say the At Pro.
> And this future detector is not released yet.
>
> What if a manufacturer's Rep actually ask the
> following--- take a poll of sorts
>
> For example, who would be interested in giving $50
> for an additional year of warranty on the
> detector--- covering parts/ labor, and only return
> shipping cost to customer
>
> Could there be an interest in such a thing.
>
> I mean it cost nothing to ask the question
>
> I want to be up front here.
>
> I have no higher education degrees with
> Marketing.
>
> I guess the gent don't have insurance on his autos
> or house either--- using his own logic and odds
>
> Really extended warranty is nothing more than
> insurance??
>
> Maybe a good question to ask here of Deus owners.
>
> Which Deus owner here is ready to take a $100
> check from Xp in exchange for your remaining
> warranty coverage being discontinued??
> My answer is-- Hell no!!!
Yes, Steve Howard in a Sweet Home Whites rep. I do like it that he joined this forum and others! I'm not sure some of our suggestions will make the MXS software package like the Makro did. But again I believe this is the first time anyone from the Whites Mother ship has reached out and offered any info? Even us Whites dealers are usually the last to know anything on new releases and prices! I usually do not buy extended warranties because it always seems there are twice as many hoops to jump through than the original warranty and it's hard for them to pay off. But if Whites were to offer a simple dollar amount to extend a warranty at the time of purchase I could see where this could be a money maker for the manufacturer if the product is solid. But either way with Whites or Garrett it's not a deal breaker. Both have more than taken care of me in the past. The other manufacturers? Well they just don't have the customer service and warranty thing down.....

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

Ive used whites from 1978 up to last year. Whites mxt/mxt pro and m6 are my favorites.. Never had any warranty issues til the mx5.. I played hell trying to get whites to understand what was wrong.. Tones would change.. Noone believed me and after many posts and phone calls and having the idiot theolslyfox shutting down my threads because power went to his head i guess i decided to stop using whites.. Sold all i had and moved on. The awesome company that were always so great and easy to talk to changed.. Maybe just maybe the mxsport will be a winner. We will see.. If its over priced i wont buy anyway and i will go ahead with the new nokta impact...

Didn't Keith have a video here showing how the tones on the MX 5 would change???

Basstrackerman, is this what you were referring??


[m.youtube.com]

I wonder in this video. If iron would have been disc out in 2 tone-- would the same results have been seen with the unusal tone while over the nonferrous coin???

I'm thinking yes-- but it would have been a good experiment.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2016 12:50AM by tnsharpshooter.

The deus is a whole different animal. They HAVE to make the warranty a big deal as every one sold has an expiration date of sorts.

I could care less about how long the warranty is on a traditional machine. Never had to contact a manufacturer other than Makro, and they took care of me. Most defects are going to show up like steve said in the first season and everyone covers you through that time. I called whites once to get a part I messed up, they bent over backwards to help me on a 20 year old machine. Pretty much every company takes care of folks, word gets out if they dont. Buy from a reputable company and move on. No need to continue questioning a company with a track record of the best after the sale service around. Really overthinking this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2016 12:42AM by deadlift.

Yes tnss i made several vids also and sent them to whites. My tones changed from foil to silver on same target.. Even during pinpoint it changed.

theolslyfox .........He sure has given many posters a hard time though the years. I quit posting there years ago because of issues with him. It looks like it will indeed come down to price between the impact and this new Whites unit.

Steve Howard and theolslyfox are not the same person. Steve Howard is a straight up good guy. The fox - well, yeah, he is why I left the White's forum.

Steve Herschbach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve Howard and theolslyfox are not the same
> person. Steve Howard is a straight up good guy.
> The fox - well, yeah, he is why I left the White's
> forum.

I know i never said they were the same guy.. Steve Howard was actually one that helped.. It was a long frustrating ordeal.. If whites would fix their forum then they may gain customers..

Da ole fox, I quit reading and posting there as well quite a while ago.

I got tired of hearing him say,,,," In my sweet soil........

And his basically supporting the thought whenever anyone ask a question,,,,,White's is best, really no matter what.

Reminded more of a brainwashing going on,,, rather than intelligent discussion.

And I've commented here about their needing to improve their forum.

Sort of a shame really.

A no nonsense company should have a no nonsense forum with no nonsense mods to boot.

But like some say--- I may be overthinking a bit lol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2016 03:59AM by tnsharpshooter.

I'm definitely interested to see how this machine pans out and at what price. I wonder if there's a waterproof TDI in the works also? Hmmm

John

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Da ole fox, I quit reading and posting there as
> well quite a while ago.
>
> I got tired of hearing him say,,,," In my sweet
> soil........
>
> And his basically supporting the thought whenever
> anyone ask a question,,,,,White's is best, really
> no matter what.
>
> Reminded more of a brainwashing going on,,, rather
> than intelligent discussion.
>
> And I've commented here about their needing to
> improve their forum.
>
> Sort of a shame really.
>
> A no nonsense company should have a no nonsense
> forum with no nonsense mods to boot.
>
> But like some say--- I may be overthinking a bit
> lol.

It's basically a, "pro White's" forum, keep the posting on target promoting how good the products are and the great finds, good technical questions regarding White's products, don't mention other brands, then for the most part it's a good forum. The mods can seem to be heavy handed, that may come from upper management. Think they want to keep it a friendly family orientated forum.......keep the Sh-t disturbance to 0%.

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

Company forums have largely disappeared and no new ones added for this very reason.

A company is between a rock and a hard place. Either spend their own money letting every tom, dick and harry post whatever comes into their heads

Or

Moderate the heck out of it and risk becoming non-responsive and heavy handed.

More and more, they are moving to Facebook. On FB they have access to a much broader (not to mention younger) audience and it is like a river, it just flows by and is forgotten - unlike the forums where we have a tendancy to hang on to topics that interest us and forum search by text or author can dig up lots of useful stuff from the past.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2016 03:28PM by lytle78.

For a person who is new to the hobby and looking for a detector to start detecting.

Would the White's forum, with the way it's designed--- be a good place to get unbiased information???

Nope

If I made a product I would want it to be compared to other products..

This dog and pony show they have going--- really is an insult to the metal detecting hobby and the industry as a whole.

Nothing like free information White's.

I'm sure a lawyer or a person with a marketing degree would charge far more than I did for this " free" advice- recommendation.

If I had a company I would appreciate the negative feedback and learn from my customers what is wrong with my product. They use it. They use the the competitors product. Constructive criticism is a very good thing. There is an arrogance on the Whites forum that has been there for years. It goes back to the days of the detecting magazines and the complete control by the manufacturers. Till this day I have never seen a negative review of a detector in a magazine. But I can tell you that I have held quit a few crappy detectors through the years. Like quite a few of us have said "I simply stopped going there" when it comes to their forum. And if I can't have an honest review or engage in an an honest conversation about your product I simply won't buy it. Whites was once king of the hill in my book. I owned the Spectrum, XLT, IDX Pro w/ mods, XL PRO with tone mods, 6T, and two other Prizm models. In no way was I just a one time buyer. Whites needs to change in more ways than one. Hopefully this new detector can be the start of something wonderful.

I'm not looking to buy the MX Sport as it doesn't fit my needs....the conversation seems to have shifted directly to WARRANTY for now and the importance/non-importance of it. We would all like insurance that the thing we just spent our hard earned money on isn't going to break or malfunction within a reasonable period with reasonable care. The few times I've bought any "luxury item" or "high end" thing I've usually had some interaction with that manufacturer before and know they make quality things. There may be value in considering Whites' past water machines,the Beach Hunter and the Surf PI. If these have been trouble in the past then it could be a sign that the same may happen with this new one,maybe not.
I may have related this elsewhere,but want to do it now to take a little "scrappiness" off this thread right now...
In 1992 I was working at a Chrysler/Nissan dealership in Madison,WI. One day a 300ZX Twin Turbo got towed into the shop,wouldn't move. The main Nissan tech Paul(R.I.P.) hoisted it and the first thing he noticed was the rear tires were bald with cords hanging out everywhere. Then it was determined the clutch was blown COMPLETELY,like,down to rivets on the disc. Hmmmm.....the car had 9,000 miles on it,and you guessed it...the owner wanted to know if the tires and clutch were covered under WARRANTY.
I can't give advice nor do I want to,nor do you want me to,so I won't. Life is chance. If there's anything you don't like about the machine,don't buy it. Simple,really.

One reason companies don't like comparing on forms is because of false talk or conjecture. I can understand that.

"Buy our great product, compare them for yourselves.".........their products are gone from inventory, money is in their bank....move on with biz.
Most will sell privately or,, like the product enough to just keep it.

Goodmore is really on point here.

I mean the old way was to hand out the rose colored glasses to magazine readers.

But magazines couldn't talk back or answer questions for the reader.

I've never read a detecting magazine or even had my hands on one.

Times have indeed changed, even newspapers are becoming more and more less popular or unnecessary.

A manufacturer who once utilized such in advertising--- had better rethink their strategies.

It's the 21st century now.

A digital world of sorts.

A manufacturer who refuses to acknowledge this---- the penalty could be huge and painstaking.

BTW,

I wish Mr Howard would get more pics of the Mx Sport detector.
Many pics really - closeups from many angles
And talk about headphone options/ application

He could put the pics here or anywhere where we can view.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2016 04:16PM by tnsharpshooter.

Wise man said.... if u want to learn...surround yourself by smart people who love to argue. Argue isnt always a negative term. Its a way to kick a subject around. If everyone is sheep...where is the learning curve and improvement?

basstrackerman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve Herschbach Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Steve Howard and theolslyfox are not the same
> > person. Steve Howard is a straight up good guy.
> > The fox - well, yeah, he is why I left the
> White's
> > forum.
>
> I know i never said they were the same guy.. Steve
> Howard was actually one that helped.. It was a
> long frustrating ordeal.. If whites would fix
> their forum then they may gain customers..

AGREED!

White's forum NOW allows debating all brands of metal detectors by name and brand. However, bashing, or sales postering, are still not allowed.

Guess extended warranties are popular for some. For me, however, the odds are just too poor. I ask a extended warranty pro once "who sells the best extended warranty"? He said, "you do", put some money in the bank, name the account extended warranty, there you go, best program there is.

showard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> White's forum NOW allows debating all brands of
> metal detectors by name and brand. However,
> bashing, or sales postering, are still not
> allowed.
>
> Guess extended warranties are popular for some.
> For me, however, the odds are just too poor. I
> ask a extended warranty pro once "who sells the
> best extended warranty"? He said, "you do", put
> some money in the bank, name the account extended
> warranty, there you go, best program there is.
I have been a victim of deleted posts in the past at the Mother ship forum. If constructive criticism and praise are now allowed I will visit more frequently. This is a breath of fresh air. It seems Whites is trying to move forward with loosening the noose on us small dealers, more open forum and now you commenting on several forums. Keep up the good work!

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

"Ahem...hi...OK....can we get back to the matter at hand...the MX Sport!
Andy Sabisch informed me he has been testing this since November last year.
Says "pricing hasn't been decided ? Depemds on "Options" Sounds like a few versions of it? Some with waterproof headphones, some not, features in, features out???
Dunno...best to wait for more info maybe?"

The thread was indeed about the new detector. But with the purchase of any detector or any product of value the company itself deserves a critiquing. If they offer different packages or different options with the detector multi frequency for salt water hunting should have been one. Salt water hunters are left out in the cold again.

Sounds like progress is being made-- sounds great.