MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew........ you changed the conditions!!! You u
> sed a Dime now..... instead of a Nickel??? That W
> ILL give completely different results!!!
> The Manticore should do better in 2-bar dirt......
> once it unthaws!
>
> CTGoldman........ Yes. LONG PRESS of the Noise Can
> cel feature on Manticore allows for the unit to ac
> quire a true aggregate of the actual conditions...
> ... and apply the correct Noise Cancel channel.
> The EQX auto Noise Cancel takes a very short snaps
> hot of each channel........and may not capture the
> true varying atmospheric conditions. EMI can come
> in 'slow pulses'....... and if the sampling of eac
> h channel is too fast...... you will not catch the
> slow/loud pulses of EMI. Manticore LONG PRESS comp
> letely captures this....... and adjusts accordingl
> y.

Tom, I don’t own a Manticore yet, but I do wonder about the significance of the “Long Press” Noise Cancel. Many, if not most of the videos I’ve seen of the Manticore in testing and in the field DO NOT utilize this Long Press, only a short press that most are familiar with on the Equinox. Would this then affect the operational maximum of the unit if the Long Press is not used or underutilized? Also, Is it actually a multiple run through Noise Cancel function, or is it a separate Noise Cancel that is employed once the button is pushed for the said amount of time? How much performance would one lose if the EMI was silent and not minimized by the Long Press? Just been curious about the Long Press NC. TIA

What a LONG PRESS does... is: Continuously scans/re-scans through all 19 Noise Cancel channels......again-and-again....... remembering each individual channel 'noise-amplitude'. ---Then........ in additive fashion..........with a long-enough press of LONG PRESS........cumulatively/additively generates a 'overall aggregate' of the least-offensive channel.
If you perform a basic/simple "tap-the-Noise-Cancel" button......... the Manticore will cycle through all of the Noise Cancel channels....... JUST ONCE!!!.......,,,,,,,,,...... and you will miss the 'overall aggregate' long-duration ""capture"" of what is really happening (EMI-wise) in the real-World. Yes.......this will cause you to loose depth/performance. The exact amount of performance lost....varies to each site/condition(s). It is not a 'constant'. When you just simply 'tap' the Noise Cancel button...... you will acquire a 'above average' Noise Cancel channel. When you LONG PRESS.... you will acquire the BEST Noise Cancel channel.

When you just simply 'tap' the Noise Cancel button........... You will acquire the best Noise Cancel channel for only that SPLIT-SECOND-IN-TIME ....of what was happening in the EMI atmosphere......at that split-second. A LONG PRESS monitors the atmosphere for a genuine more-realistic sampling of long-duration atmospheric EMI.

If you manually scan through the Noise Cancel channels....... you will notice (many times) that ....there will be a certain channel.....that presents a certain type of EMI interference 'beep' . , . , . , . , . , . whereby....... the detector will 'beep' about every 2-seconds.,.,.,.,.,., and maybe the 'beep' will be a very loud (very strong) 'beep'. If you simply 'tap' the Noise Cancel button...... the detector will take about a 1/2-second "snapshot" of each Noise Cancel channel........ and......you will most-probably MISS the (strong/loud) 2-second 'beeps' !!!!! The detector will still/then remain: EMI noisy! Hence; LONG PRESS!!!
Some EMI may generate 30 or 60 'beeps' per second.
Other EMI may generate 1 'beep' every few seconds.
[[[[ This is called PRF = Pulse Repetition Frequency ]]]]

((( Does any of this post ....make any sense )))???

I have been so busy answering other folks important questions/concerns...... that I'm about a month behind..... in providing additional teachings/data........ AND ...... I have forgotten some of the data I was going to share! (I need to write things down!!!......especially if I know/speculate that: there will be a delay in my ability to post/type/report/document).

* I have been running All Terrain Low Conductors for a few years .....in carpets of nails. Depending on the decomposition (and 'type') of nails...... the audio clarity of AT Low Conductors is indeed: a bit more intelligible than (say) AT High Conductors. About 20% - 35% clearer. This also holds true for Deus-2. The higher grouping of frequencies are a bit more 'resolute' in carpets of nails.
If you are in carpets of nails......and your 14" capable detector can NOT see beyond 5" or 6" or 7" anyway...... (due to severe/inhibiting masking)....... the deeper, lower-frequency Modes that give/present greater depth.....are rendered by all the masking anyway!....so you may as well use a Mode that best suits/enhances audible intelligibility to the best of its abilities.
The lower grouping of frequencies (say: Deus-2 Program 10 DIVING.......and Manticore Beach Surf/Seawater) is audibly: much more challenging in carpets of nails. BUT....... in carpets of chewing-gum-foil......... the lowest grouping of freqs are best-suited for NOT seeing/detecting the gum-foil; but/rather..... more resonant to deep silver dimes. HUNT INTELLIGENTLY!!!!

* On the beach .... I hardly ever Noise Cancel.
* Inland...... I seem to find myself (nominal-median-average) performing a LONG PRESS about every 7 minutes. {{{Some sites..... it's every 2-minutes.,.,.,.,., and other sites...... it's about every 25-minutes}}}. Some sites..... it is OBVIOUS when you need to re-perform another Noise Cancel. Silent EMI....is the part that'll get ALL of us! .......due to it's completely unsuspecting presence.
* My pinnacle/dream Sensitivity setting (that I always try to achieve) for inland hunting...... seems to be a Sens setting of '28'.
* My DRY sand beach hunting Sensitivity setting...... is in the mid-30's. Usually a Sens setting of '32'.
* My INability to see calabash's high-tone iron falsing concerns may be....due to = My pinnacle inland/dirt hunting 'dream' Ferrous Limits settings.... of: Upper = 5......and Lower = 3. These (normal human being) insane settings are giving me (a ear-bashing) incredible unmasking abilities. The longer you run ANY detector...... the more you 'understand its language' ......AND....... the deeper you "push-the-proverbial-envelope".
* I always TRY to run AT High Conductors at inland/dirt/turf sites....always, always, ALWAYS. , . , . , . , . , . but..... if nails are too thick/abundant ...... switch to AT Low Conductors Mode...... so as to prevent you from fatiguing-out too soon!

* I've encountered a weird incursion.... on my last 2 inland (carpets of nails) hunt sites. AT Low Conductors. Recovery Speed of '4'. Sens 26. UPPER = 5, LOWER = 3.
The last 41 (consecutive) located non-ferrous targets were found with Recovery Speed of '4'. On each (and every) detected, undug target..... I switched to a Recovery Speed of '2'...... and the audio intelligence increased......and fairly dramatically. (A bit of a paradox). The audio became, louder, longer, more resolute, stood-out. Testing Recovery Speed '5'..... 7 of the (41) targets ... completely disappeared.
I need to do more testing/analyzing/data-collecting. ((It's that: Coil envelop saturated EM-field ...theory-to-proof physics phenomenon..... in full living colour))!!!
Frequency is more important than speed.

But........ I'm going to be tied up ..... on the beach (and engineering-booth)...... for the next period/chunk of time. Yet, I will NOT forget!

NASA Tom please:

I did some testing on nuggets ranging from .33 to 1.33 grams, in Goldfield mode, no changes to the default settings. It was basically air testing with each nugget taped to a card, on a non-mineralized soccer field here in the burbs. The VDI's were between 11 and 19, in ascending order of size, which I expected due to common impurities in native gold.
The one thing I noticed was that the signal disappeared between 2-3". I then upped the sensitivity up to the point just below where the detector wasn't freaking out. Still about the same results, maybe another 1/2" more.
Yes I noise cancelled and ground balanced per the manual.
My question is, will there be any improvements in sensitivity in the ground as opposed to mere air tests?
I didn't buy the Manticore for prospecting so it's not a huge problem. It's the "bomb" otherwise.

Thank you.

If it so important to long press nc why not extend the time for a single cycle?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2023 04:24AM by khouse.

Josh...... it is highly doubtful that the Manticore (or ANY detector......... for that matter) will perform BETTER in-the-ground......as compared to an air-test! But....... question for you: if you wave the nuggets by the coil....... in an air-test fashion; is the performance DIFFERENT than when you rest the nuggets on the ground?

khouse....... you do not LONG PRESS Ground Balance. You LONG PRESS Noise Cancel! (You may have made a typo).
BUT........ to answer your question: In a nutshell....... you would have to extend the auto Noise Cancel to a LONG (undetermined)....... length/time: dictated by LOCAL/site-specific conditions. We 'could' just simply create a 15-second Noise Cancel feature...... that would most-probably "cover" nearly all of the differing conditions that could ever be encountered.

Tom,
I could be wrong but I think a lot of people are assuming long press noise cancel automatically means more depth. But there are other factors that also determine depth. Ground mineralization and salt are just a few. Just because you can do a long press noise cancel and can get your sensitivity up to 30, doesn't mean you will be able to run the Manticore at those sensitivity levels once the coil is on the ground. It only helps if EMI is your main culprit. Otherwise GB and sensitivity levels come into play to quiet the machine down.

Andrew.......that's a really good point. At times........ I may 'assume' a bit too much.........and overlook (forget) to state other factors......such as: mineralization.
Yes. If you are not properly Ground Balanced......... the first thing effected is: loss of ID accuracy.......then (also) loss of depth. If you are hunting in areas that have low mineralization....... THEN (and only then) will LONG PRESS Noise Cancel have MORE effect on depth/sensitivity/performance. It is indeed a: cause-and-effect resultant.

[youtu.be]

Here is a vid from CD, pulling non-ferrous from iron. He shows the 2D screen. That screen is definately underrated by alot of users on youtube in my opinion. So much info there, I think I will be using that feature alot when I get out in the field hunting. Fedex is coming today!

I love hunting in heavy iron and you have to "be in/get in" a certain mindset to do so to get good results.

If you are hunting in heavy iron, cherry picking is not on your mind. You'll be swinging slow and not covering much ground. You could be standing in one spot for many minutes or longer.

If you have iron volume, it will be on so you can barley hear it. We have to know where the iron is so we can determine if falsing is happening.

You will be checking out tones with a coil wiggle, often. One way targets have to be investigated.

You will be pulling out little nails to 3" nails and maybe some spikes . . . . with a good unmasking detector, better re-check the hole pulling out all targets that set off the pinpointer.

If you know your detector, this type of hunting will become a "feel" or a "one" with it.

Will you get it all? Probably not, but you'll get more than the many hunters before you.

My motto is "When in doubt, Dig it out".

@midalake
>
> I have been VERY fortunate to hunt with the Origin
> al Black Widow headphones with Audio Sear speakers
> , for many years.
>
> -28 Db on outside ambient noise and some of the sw
> eetest tones ever. Separates the men from the boys
> !

Midalake, any thoughts on the current Black Widow headphones?

Regards

FloridaSon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @midalake
> >
> > I have been VERY fortunate to hunt with the Orig
> in
> > al Black Widow headphones with Audio Sear speake
> rs
> > , for many years.
> >
> > -28 Db on outside ambient noise and some of the
> sw
> > eetest tones ever. Separates the men from the bo
> ys
> > !
>
> Midalake, any thoughts on the current Black Widow
> headphones?
>
> Regards

I do not like the current speakers in the new Black Widows> AT ALL.

Very short on time..........and............before I forget =

If you are deep silver hunting:
* Always try to use All Terrain High Conductors first.
* If you are hunting in carpets of nails..... you may want to use All Terrain Low Conductors.
* If you are hunting in carpets of chewing gum foil....... you may want to use Beach Seawater Mode.
* If you are hunting in carpets of nails WITH carpets of chewing gum foil........ you may want to use Beach Seawater Mode.

How do you know you are hunting in carpets of chewing gum foil = The Manticore will be continuously audibly reporting +01 ID's.........multiple times ...in just one sweep. Go hunt a Elementary School playground for just a few minutes....... and you will understand EXACTLY "why" !!!

A silver dime to the Manticore..... whilst in All Terrain Low Conductors Mode...... looks like a soda-can sized object to this Mode. Low Conductors Mode is quite deep on silver. Do not underestimate! A high conductor silver dime REALLY "stands-out" to Low Conductors Mode. Yes..... All Terrain High Conductors Mode is a bit deeper on a silver dime; yet, not by much.
BUT........ a small/tiny piece of chewing gum foil........looks like a coin-sized object to the Manticore......whilst in All Terrain Low Conductors Mode.
A small piece of chewing gum foil........is virtually invisible (looks like nothing) to the Manticore whilst in Beach Seawater Mode.
In MOST cases....... Beach Seawater Mode is THE most susceptible to EMI......whilst inland hunting.
Be armed with DATA.
Be armed with BEST CHOICE.

Tom, thanks for arming us with all this valuable information! This will drastically shorten the learning curve on this weapon!

WISH MINELAB WOULD ADD AUTO SENSITIVITY + ! thru 5.After 8 hours on the manticort, it's harder for me to tell when I'm over driving the detector as compared to my CTX3030.I can take the sensitivity all the way to 35 without overloading my ears and brain.I keep adjusting sensitivity from 20 to 35 trying to find what is best for my hearing.I think that I need to be hearing some EMI but not sure how much is hurting my detection depth.Maybe more time is all that I need but auto sens would help.SOFTWARE UPDATE????



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2023 03:15PM by BamaJoe.

Agreed the auto +3 setting it was awsome on the ctx.I also would love to see this on the manticore

C'mon CTX replacement!!!!

+2

D&P-OR Wrote:
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> C'mon lightweight CTX replacement!!!!

fixed it for ya.

Does anyone know what frequency are the headphones to detector operating at?

Couple videos I did talking showing noise cancel long press ops.


[m.youtube.com]

[m.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2023 02:29PM by tnsharpshooter.

Three afternoons with the manticort.12 hours,and I can't sugar coat it.It may be the best beach detector ever made.In a trashy park it may separate all the clad from rusty nails down to 5 or 6 inches.But in my highly mineralized soil!!! I'm DISGUSTED.I have two 30 year old detectors that will dig rusty nails as good and deeper.Sorry but the CZ3D is one of them.I've loved using my E-trac,CTX3030,and Nox.I can afford the $1600 but if your looking for a good new technology detector for bad soil, there ain't none!!!! I have tried them all.

Thanks for that info Joe.-----BamaJoe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Three afternoons with the manticort.12 hours,and I
> can't sugar coat it.It may be the best beach detec
> tor ever made.In a trashy park it may separate all
> the clad from rusty nails down to 5 or 6 inches.Bu
> t in my highly mineralized soil!!! I'm DISGUSTED.I
> have two 30 year old detectors that will dig rusty
> nails as good and deeper.Sorry but the CZ3D is one
> of them.I've loved using my E-trac,CTX3030,and Nox
> .I can afford the $1600 but if your looking for a
> good new technology detector for bad soil, there a
> in't none!!!! I have tried them all.

Well...I've calmed down some,so, I'll try again tomorrow...98% chance of operator error...I hope it is...I'll come back and apologize to all...I've eat crow before,but right now I'm not seeing it in my bad soil.Maybe tomorrow will be that "moment when the light turns on". Still got some HOPE.If in this life only we have HOPE....1 Corinthians 15:19

Joe....... for my curiosity......do you know what your mineralization level is on a T2/F75. Is it 5-bar dirt?
What are your Manticore Ground Balance numbers......for your dirt? And in which Mode?
I wonder if Recovery Speed = 5...... would start to help.

I would think the two Modes I would focus on..... yes, for inland/turf!........ would be Beach Seawater Mode.........and All Terrain High Conductors Mode.

Tom, as you can tell I came in yesterday very discouraged.After re-reading the user manual, I have realized some operator problems. #1...you must be in open screen to here the FE tones..(I think you have stated that but it didn't register)I didn't have any discrimination (I thought that was an open screen but no that's not what you were talking about...you must have the horseshoe pressed)#2...(with 5 tone audio)you can adjust the bin tone's audio volume down to reduce audio fatigue. #3 My upper & lower limits may be different from yours.On my manticort in custom 1 thru 4 my upper limits = 0 to 25 lower limits = 0 to -25.0 on both limits are in the middle (center non FE line)Is this different from yours? My GB is running from mid 30's to high 40's.I was trying low and high conductor modes.I probably won't get back out till Thursday.I'll correct #1 & 2 and report back.Can you think of anything else to try? Oh yea, I was using Recovery Speed =1 thru 3.So, I'll try 5 ...... THANKS TOM,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2023 12:37PM by BamaJoe.

I was using the Manticore yesterday and it was going nuts in my ground. I was using the high conductor mode.I switched to fast mode and adjusted the recovery speed to 6 changed the audio to 5 tones and it was a game changer.I was pulling targets everywhere including 3 civil war buttons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2023 03:05PM by Jesse.

Here the same - iron falsing on the old site. After one hour is not easy to determine whether I pass a good target or only a high tone of the iron spike.

On Saturday I did some testing at an old foundation from the 1800's. This place had a lot of square nails and I recall the search modes AT-HC and AT-LC were ground balancing around 12-13. I found a spot next to the foundation dug a plug and put a modern US dime about 6 inches down flat and closed it up.

I went through every single search mode and while running the manticore sensitivity at 20, audio theme enhanced simple mode, 1 region all tones. I long pressed noise cancel for each mode and swept over where the coin was in all directions. I found that only 3 modes(AT-Fast, AT-HC, and Beach Low Conductors) were able to detect the dime with a two way repeatable hit at only one specific direction every other direction only indicated iron.

Out of those three Beach Low Conductors gave me the strongest repeatable signal. On the target trace for these three(should have taken a picture but didn't) there was lots of iron blobs in the top and a long blob coming from the top iron area touching the center line, kind of looked like a blobby capital T.

Another note, increasing the sensitivity to 25 caused the repeatable signal to disappear completely and just indicated iron.

I’m going to keep testing using Beach Low Conductors at some more old foundations that I’ve been to before and see if I can find anything new at them.

I have that strange feeling like with Equinox... software is not ready yet isn't it? Like with other brands... customers beta testing hell