MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE

Well, just got back from the Caribbean trip. Brought The Excal II and the Manticore.

Things I learned:
1. In water, a smaller coil would be much better. It wasn't available before I left so I had to use the 11 inch. The big coil collected too much info for my tastes and was like swinging a trash can lid in the water, especially with high currents and waves.

2. I used Beach Low conductors most of the time, except at the black iron beach on one part of the island. I had to go to Beach General there. Both modes All Metal.

3. Prospecting tones were the best for me. In prospecting tones, you don't have to hardly use the pinpoint for some reason.

4. Because of the general higher than most iron content all over the island, 14 was the highest sensitivity I used. On some beaches I could use 17-18 without getting driven crazy. I am sure at a different island, I could go as much as 22.

5. Recovery speed 4 was perfect.

6. When not in all metal, the ferrous was set at 5 on top and 0 on the bottom. I used all metal most of the time.

7. Prospecting has it's own unchangeable ferrous tones but per a recommendation from a hunting partner I set the ferrous volume to very low. I adjusted the conductive to a high pitch and high volume. This worked for me.

8. The battery lasted 2 hard and full days of detecting.

9. The Manticore is extremely sensitive, fast, and the 2D screen was a big help; I could see bottlecaps easily as well as being able to see multiple targets.

10. Gold VDI's were all over the place, depending on their size and gold content. Ya gotta dig any target that is conductive. On the iron beach good targets sounded way different and non-distinctive because of all the iron in the black sands.

That is all. JQ out.

Josh...... VERY good report! Also.......it sounds like you adapted to your specific (remote island) conditions very well.
My only question: How did the Manticore compare to the Excal? (IF you did any head-to-head).

I am confused about beach - wet salt settings for silver coins.

Back on Dec 1 you wrote “ Beach - High Conductors is the deepest Mode to/for silver coins....... in a wet-salt environment.”

I asked about this mode on Dec 16 I believe, and your reply (if meant for my question) included the mode “all terrain - high conductor”.


My confusion is since (per my copy of the Manticore manual) there is no search mode for Beach - High Conductors which mode would be better for silver coins and old reales that may be silver/copper? This is all on Florida east coast beach north of you.,

Best regards, and Merry Christmas

I didn't do a side by side comparison but as we were there 2 weeks, I kind of alternated days as we re-visited beaches. As the islands are, it isn't advisable to leave anything of value, like another detector, in the rental car.

The Excalibur II is my water binky, so to speak. For the most part, I like to zone out and swing, awaiting a diggable signal. The Excal is good at aurally eliminating bottle caps and iron. It is plenty sensitive for most gold. Long ago, I trashed the OEM shaft setup and headphones so the Excal is easy to swing and the horrid phones aren't blowing off or sucking in wind noise.

The Manticore is a solid performer. Once I tweaked the various settings to my liking, it did very well, almost too well with the big coil; picking up every speck of metal and black sand. That being said, it found small gold that I doubt the Excal could have. I definitely am going to get the small coil next trip. The screen was both an asset and a detriment; when under sometimes murky water, having to lift the detector up out of the water to evaluate signals is annoying. It will definitely be in my kit for the next trip in March though.

Hey Tom, Just want to tell you I have been using the Beach General IN the saltwater with pretty good results. I am able to run a sensitivity around 20 - 21 without too much ear fatigue. I think it is more sensitive and deeper than the Seawater Mode. But more testing is in the works. Found 2 small thin gold rings that were pretty deep so things are looking good. 1.8gm and a 2.5gm that I broke when cleaning. That one was 10k and really corroded. The other nice-looking ring is 14k.

FloridaSon..... MY BAD!!!! And REALLY bad!!!!!! You can NEVER use a All Terrain Mode for wet-salt. What makes it worse is: I even Proof-Read my post BEFORE posting!!! I had to go back.... and edit the message to correct it.

In any case....... what I meant to say is: Use Beach - Surf/Seawater Mode for deep silver. This is the lowest grouping of freq's (in the Simultaneous Multi Frequency spectrum)...... that will give best results on deep High Conductors..... in a wet-salt environment. It is the least sensitive Mode for low-conductor gold......and the most sensitive mode for high-conductor silver implements.
CAVEAT = Because each Beach Mode utilizes a totally different bias/group of freq's....... EACH Mode ascertains a TOTALLY DIFFERENT Ground Balance setting/number. Soooooooooo......... two critical steps:
1. Perform coil-bobbing auto Ground Balance FOR EACH MODE!!!!! (The Manticore will retain/remember the specific Grnd Bal number for that SPECIFIC Mode).
2. With proper Grnd Bal....... you are NOW eligible to bump Sensitivity up a bit higher whilst in Surf/Seawater Mode (as compared to other Beach Modes).,.,.,.,.,., which THEN......... IN TURN......... is where extra depth is ascertained on High Conductors.

FloridaSon....... I forget: are you near Palm Coast..... or St. Augustine? (Or JAX)?

(((( Side Note = What's worse is: I even refer to Beach - Surf/Seawater Mode as: " Beach - High Conductor Mode"!!!))))

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Josh........ I bet if you took a few small gold jewelry items (NOT rings)....... and tested them with Manticore..... then Excal . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , you would see a formidable 'difference'.

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okara........... Those are good settings/numbers for being IN the ocean. And: Yes. Beach - General Mode is a bit more sensitive to gold/small gold.......as compared to Beach - Surf/Seawater Mode.
And................... Your 10Kt (broken) ring. 10 + 14 = 24. Your (broken) ring is 10/24 gold.......... and 14/24 copper. Specifically....it is the copper that has given-up-the-ghost to the salt.,.,.,.,.,., and can so-easily break. I'd venture to say...... that ring had been in the saltwater for quite some time.

Great info, thanks Tom. I am at Vero Beach, on the Treasure Coast.
Exactly the info I wanted to get…
Appreciate your time. Have a Happy New Year!

Regards
FS

Manticore owners: Are you aware of the Magnum coil for the Manticore?.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,. and it'll so easily 'express' it's Magnum abilities in the wet-salt. This would be the M8 coil. It is different. This smaller coil 'sees' substantially less salt. , . , . , . which........ in turn.......... allows for Sens to be boosted quite a bit higher than what the standard/stock 11" coil allows. Why do I call it the 'Magnum' coil? = On average....... it is 3X more sensitive to small/tiny gold..... than/over the stock 11" coil. But ONLY if unit is properly salt Ground Balanced....... AND the authorized increase in Sensitivity is employed.
---- In other words = If you run your Sens on 22 with the 11" coil.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., and you decide to run your Sens on the same Sens setting of 22 with the smaller M8 coil. , . , . , . , . , . , sure: you will see some reduction in depth-performance on coin-sized items. BUT...... the depth that you lose on coin-sized items with same (Sens of 22) setting...... is almost completely regained....by the authorization of higher Sens settings.
You say = SO WHAT!!!!
ANSWER = With the (allowed) higher Sens settings......... watch what happens to small/tiny gold!!! AND......... watch/see/witness how the smaller M8 coil performs IN the ocean. (Joshquint.........kinda/also targeting this data for you).
If you can run Sens on 22 with 11" coil (Nomenclature: M11 coil)...............,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.................,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you can most-probably run your Sens on 26 with M8 coil.

MEGA training-bullet = It is NOT how much ground you cover.,.,.,.,., but/rather = How EFFICIENT you cover the ground. You are going to be surprised HOW MUCH "brain-retrain" is required for this. I say this because = When you walk on the HUGE/INFINITE beach...... with a tiny coil.,.,.,.,., you will (most-probably) feel 'overwhelmed'. After a few good hunts with the M8 coil....... the epiphanictic moment will ensue.
Remember = Recover ALL single-digit ID targets that ID in the range of ((especially)): 01 - 06.
Report your findings... here.

<watch/see/witness how the smaller M8 coil performs IN the ocean. (Joshquint.........kinda/also targeting this data for you).>

Thanks Tom. My friend had an 800 with a 6" coil and killed it compared to my meager finds. As a rule, I prefer smaller coils on just about everything - my 6000's giant coils are in a drawer somewhere, they drove me nuts.

I do have an Excalibur improvement suggestions for Minelab.
1. Change the headphones to ones that are louder and don't fall off with current and/or wind.
2. Redesign the shaft setup so that A. The electronics and battery are out of the water. and... B. Change the electronics and battery mounts 90 degrees to the OEM setup (that's like swinging a paddle in the water). Anderson has solved the problem why not the mother ship?

Josh.......... I'm a bit confused on your Excal suggestions. If you move the electronics out of the water..... then....,,,,, rotating the electronics/battery 90-Degrees is a moot point. It also means that the electronics/battery are no longer a paddle.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Josh.......... I'm a bit confused on your Excal
> suggestions. If you move the electronics out of
> the water..... then....,,,,, rotating the
> electronics/battery 90-Degrees is a moot point. It
> also means that the electronics/battery are no
> longer a paddle.

Tom...If you take the typical Anderson travel shaft, the electronics, if you were to stand in a normal detecting position, are at about lower chest level. It of course makes no difference when the water is below that but when you work deeper chest level water, it then becomes a "paddle" if the electronics are perpendicular to the swing. 90 degrees parallel to your swing really helps on long days. Also in waist deep water, over less than scoop-able sand or rocks, we don snorkel and masks and all of the detector and shaft go under water while we swing, search, and fan with our hands. Fighting that all day is tiring.

Manticore with external power. Remember review User's Manual for restrictions on when external power can be safely used on Manticore.

[www.youtube.com]

Josh........ I very-much understand rotating the electronics & battery pod 90-Degrees!!! (I used to swing a Excal underwater.......in stock configuration).
I (think) I may not be understanding the Anderson shaft. Does it move the battery & electronics HIGHER....... (up the shaft).......... more-so than the stock shaft? Like: up....under your armpit?

Yes, the Anderson shaft puts the electronics atop the shaft about armpit height. Another advantage is that having that configuration minimizes getting tangled with wires. I cobbled together one years ago out of aluminum tubes and clamps but the salt water was tough on it.

joshquint -- it sounds like you are already set up with the shaft you need, but just wanted to make it known that I do sell a shaft for the Excalibur -- it's a "Florida-style" shaft (i.e. where the battery pod and control pod mount to an 11" shaft "extension" that attaches to butt-end of the shaft "in-line" (i.e. back beyond the arm cuff). On mine, that extension (where the control pod/battery pod mount) is attached to the shaft via a cam lock, and thus can be rotated 360 degrees, to be locked in whatever position you desire. Thus, you can orient your control pod/battery pod at any angle you prefer.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, as many folks are unaware that I do build Excal shafts...

Steve

I'm curious about the difference between the 2 modes, All Terrain Low Conductors and Beach Low Conductors. What is the machine doing different in these modes from each other.
I hunt fresh water dirt, limestone and granite based gravel and sand. Is there an advantage of one over the other off of saltwater conditions?
I'd like to use the one that is the most sensitive to small gold items, chains, earrings, etc.

I just got a Manticore again after selling the first one after getting completely frustrated with it back in January. Thanks.

Dan....... in short:
All Terrain - Low Conductors is more sensitive to tiny (low conductor) gold........ as compared to any of the beach Modes.
The beach Modes use a different grouping of frequencies ...... so as to BEST mitigate wet-salt (which is not as sensitive to gold...... as a non-beach Mode).
When you are in a wet-salt environment....... you have no choice but to mitigate wet-salt!

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dan....... in short:
> All Terrain - Low Conductors is more sensitive to
> tiny (low conductor) gold........ as compared to
> any of the beach Modes.
> The beach Modes use a different grouping of
> frequencies ...... so as to BEST mitigate wet-salt
> (which is not as sensitive to gold...... as a
> non-beach Mode).
> When you are in a wet-salt environment....... you
> have no choice but to mitigate wet-salt!

Thanks for the reply Tom, I wasn't sure if Beach Low Conductor has some secret sauce for finding small gold. Thanks for taking time and effort to help us out with the Manticore.

Tom, I have a "funny" question for you.

I have used an Equinox 800, which I have been diving underwater for the last 4 years, with the 6¨ EQX coil.
Now I have acquired a Manticore with the M8', and I am still testing it.

Is the M8 as sensitive, deep and accurate as the 6¨? Or more? Do you have any of those interesting data that you usually share with us?

And what would be your recommended search mode and parameters for saltwater diving with the M8?

I know that these questions are a lot, and that they are demanding because they are very specific and compared to the 800... so thank you very much in advance, because I know it will be a bit of a long answer

Quick questionfor Tom.... I hunt gulf beaches in Pensacola and Alabama. What are you running your disc at, and Upper and lower ferrous limits also. I want to be sure I don't miss tiny gold.

The M8 coil has opened up a new realm......new World.......when coupled with Beach Mode - Low Conductors.
EQX in Beach Mode-1 with EQX-6" coil is no slouch; yet, Manticore Beach Mode - Low Conductors is next-Gen/next-level (especially with salt mitigation). Herein lies the difference: EQX w/6" coil & Beach Mode-1. IN the water...... you can (skillfully) get away with a Sens of 24.
If you set the Sens to 24 on the Manticore (with M8 8" coil)...... you will ascertain nearly identical performance .....between the two units. BUT ...... due to better Salt mitigation on Manticore....... you can get away with a Sens of 27 IN the water, with the Manticore. This is exactly 'where' the added performance is gained.
NOTE = For each 1-point Sens increase (gain) on Manticore....... a totally new group of targets (for the first time in History) become: detectable. So.,.,.,.,.,. this is to say: If you can bump 'up' the Sens: 3-points .....on Manticore.,.,.,.,., this equates to 3 NEW groups of targets that will be exposed.
For those of you that have experienced this phenomenon ..... PLEASE share your experiences also!!!
With Manticore and M8 coil....... I recommend
Beach Mode - Low Conductors
Recovery Speed = 4
Ferrous Limits = Upper: 4....and Lower: 0
Audio Theme: Prospecting audio
Volume: 25
Iron Volume: 25
Nothing 'Notched' (bring in the horseshoe)
Ground Balance
Do NOT Disc out ANYTHING!!!
Make absolutely sure to dig ALL targets in the 'single digits' ID range. It'll be a little painful (at first); yet, you will incur a epiphany-moment.....that will 'justify'.

And use a scoop whereby: chains, bracelets, anklets, stud earrings, charms, etc........ will NOT fall through the scoop.

( I just returned into the Country; hence, my late response/reply).

Thank you very much Tom for sharing your knowledge and enthusiasm with us. I have followed your advice, and little by little I have been mastering the machine, to the point that on beaches and places where with the Equinox 800 and 6" coil I could only execute sensitivity 23, with the Manticore and the M8 I have managed to reach levels sensitivity 30, and recovery speed 3, although a little chattering.

I have worked a salt sand beach with medium low iron where it has removed some sand, and I have gone very slowly. The results have been, in general, coins from the 1950's to the 1990's, various old objects from the War that took place here in the 1930's, some current coins, and some gold.

There have been 4 sessions:

1.- Manticore coil M11 2 hours to reconnoiter the terrain
2.- Manticore coil M8 3 hours
3.- Manticore coil M8 2 hours
4.- Manticore coil M8 3 hours

The best thing is that I have noticed that I have reached the lower stable layer, where the objects are stable. M11 super deep, but I didn't finish getting the gold. M8 very deep, and the one that has made the difference by taking out the gold.

On the 4 occasions I have gone with a partner who was using XP Deus 2 with a 9" coil. Manticore with M8 obtained the same depth and resolution as the Deus and 9"

The gold has come out at 15" levels, except for the fine ring, which came out at around 9". I'm experiencing a hallucinogenic sidereal trip with the Manticore.

Pendant with 197x's engraving
Ring with diamond 195x's engraving
Little ring without info

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2024 07:45PM by airtemisa.

Looks like you have done quite well with the M8. I am looking forward to getting one when they become readily available.

airtemisa.......... by the looks of your settings.,.,.,.,., all 3 gold were found with M8 coil?

If you are running Manticore on Sens 23 w/11" coil........ and Sens on 30 w/8" coil........ then the 8" coil should be deeper than the 11" coil on 'most' everything you find at the beach......excluding soda cans & bigger lead sinkers.

I would much rather you keep Recovery Speed on '4' ((than 3)). If conditions are allowing/authorizing you to drop your Recovery Speed....... I would much rather you bump up Sens by a point or two. , . , . , . , rather than deviating from a Recovery Speed of 4. ((( In most places around the World........ a Recovery Speed of '4' creates a electronic symbiotic harmonious quescense balance between electronics VS wet-salt ))).

Finding coin/ring sized targets at the 15" & 16" depths....... is normal/common for the M8 coil....... as long as Sens is on 30.
Having a crushed shell/gravel layer at the 15" - 16" depth strata...... is an eye-opener AND a blessing. , . , . , . , . preventing many targets to sink beyond that blocker strata.

Deus-2... 9" coil. Manticore M8 coil actually measures 8" x 5.5".
Doing the surface-area math:
Deus-2... 9" coil is: 9" x 9" = 81" square inches of surface area
Manticore M8 coil is 8" x 5.5" = 44" square inches
81 VS 44. Do you see where I'm starting to go with this? And................. truthfully: going by SURFACE area...... is WRONG. A coil does NOT look at "surface" area. A coil looks at a VOLUME. If you were to 'cube' 81.......and 'cube' 44. , . , . , . , . you would start to ascertain better numbers. THIS is exactly "why" I call the M8 coil a: Magnum coil.
The 3 gold targets you found (in the photo) are considered VERY large targets ....to the M8 coil.
Start digging the single-digit ID numbers....... and the 'value' of the M8 coil: comes into play. It'll define: MAGNUM.

I may have not mentioned.........(and curious minds may want to know):
You should swing the small coil (M8) just a little slower than the M11 coil. About 1/3 slower. And...... if you can....... keep it about 2mm (to no more than) 5mm above the ground......IF you can start to handle the ear-bashing (assuming Sens 30). Hearing the aberations and salt-delta's of the ground ...is JUST as important as hearing real targets. In short order....... this will become intuitive.

I might have to get it with the 6x8 in the spring. It is an interesting detector and nice settings layout.

Inland hunting with the M8........... I gotta say. , . , . , . , . it 'feels' like yesteryears hunt/hunt-style...... as far a coil size goes.

NASA-Tom, if you have any tidbits to add regarding your experiences hunting this coil inland, I'd be all ears. I am interested in this coil, and you have very clearly "touted its virtues" as a "magnum" coil, with respect to being able to crank up sensitivity and thus achieve impressive depth, and sensitivity to very small gold, AT THE BEACH. I'm curious to hear how you feel it performs inland...

Steve

Steve,

There is approx 14% better unmasking capabilities ....using the M8 coil (VS M11 coil) whilst inland hunting. . . . as long as using apples-to-apples settings. My basis..... is usually in carpets of nails. But........ the data/physics also applies to areas of modern trash. And....... in nearly all cases........ EMI is formidably less.... with this smaller coil. I use all the exact same settings with M8 & M11 coil...... with the exception that (because) .... the M8 coil usually reduces EMI...... which (in turn) allows for higher Sens settings.

NASA-Tom -- got it, and understood. Same concept as on the beach, with respect to lower EMI allowing higher sens, but otherwise keeping other settings the same.

Better unmasking is the biggest advantage then (as would be expected) when hunting inland, with likely little depth loss overall (due to the ability for the higher sens. settings).

Thank you!

Steve

Hello Tom!

I was detecting M8, LC on Friday and in very similar conditions to previous days.

The beach is still open and continues to produce, although not at the same rate, since we have already removed the most detectable signals.

Stable vdi 10 signal, about 30 cm (11" approx), a handmade, artisan ring. I have no idea how old it may be, but it is beautiful.

I didn't go below 4 RS and could run 30 sens.

Manticore is different.