CZ owners - Salt training 101

The whole intent of the air test.......is to 'START' to "open an eye or two". Yes, you are correct.........actual wet salt testing is the ultimate....... but not as easy as a bench/air-test. Your targets that you tested were good selections.

On most units............ to remove it from the salt mode requires adjusting the Grnd Bal as far away from where the unit GB's on salt. You will see a tremendous difference on small gold (or other low conductor) items when Gnd Bal is adjusted through the spectrum. Some units also require some Disc in order to work in the wet salt. . . . . And that Disc setting usually Disc's out most gold items...unless they are large mens rings.

JeffNS,

......I missed something;

Yes, nearly all gold ID's as 'foil'. Problem is........our detectors find the low-volume/very minute' percent of the "larger gold" items on the beaches; .............of which............once again is a VERY small percentage of nearly all of the gold jewelry on planet Earth. Our detectors cannot/do not find the vast/large quantity of "small gold" items. This remains an 'untapped' world. If I look into my 'found' beach jewelry collection.........it's about a 50%-50% ratio of targets that ID as 'foil' vs. 'slightly-higher-conductivity' gold targets. THIS IS A TERRIBLE REPRESENTATION of what's actually out there; once again, due to the fact that I can only detect the larger gold targets. Low conductive 'foil'..... is close to the conductivity of salt. (Some detectors require a little bit of Disc so as to Grnd Bal to the wet salt.................................and this 'little bit of Disc' just so happens to amplify the problem....because it's into the 'foil' Disc range!!!). If...............just for one hunt................we could detect ALL of the 'foil' (low conductive) range of targets.........a shocking revelation/epiphany would transpire. And if only Mfr's would take light of this.

How tall is the gold cross that you tested? ....... As tall/taller than a quarter? And is it hollow or solid?

Tom

Tom...I would bet most all 'small gold' found on the beach is in the dry sand, where VLF's don't have to account for ground balancing out the salt since there isn't much if any in the dry. If I dry sand hunt with my CZ, it's always with the 8 or 5 inch coils and never in salt mode.

I know probably 90% of the earrings, small pendants, etc. that I have found beach hunting have been in the dry sand.

Problem with that darn dry sand is TONS of foil !

John

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JeffNS,
>
> ......I missed something;
>
> Yes, nearly all gold ID's as 'foil'. Problem
> is........our detectors find the low-volume/very
> minute' percent of the "larger gold" items on the
> beaches; .............of which............once
> again is a VERY small percentage of nearly all of
> the gold jewelry on planet Earth. Our detectors
> cannot/do not find the vast/large quantity of
> "small gold" items. This remains an 'untapped'
> world. If I look into my 'found' beach jewelry
> collection.........it's about a 50%-50% ratio of
> targets that ID as 'foil' vs.
> 'slightly-higher-conductivity' gold targets. THIS
> IS A TERRIBLE REPRESENTATION of what's actually
> out there; once again, due to the fact that I can
> only detect the larger gold targets. Low
> conductive 'foil'..... is close to the
> conductivity of salt. (Some detectors require a
> little bit of Disc so as to Grnd Bal to the wet
> salt.................................and this
> 'little bit of Disc' just so happens to amplify
> the problem....because it's into the 'foil' Disc
> range!!!). If...............just for one
> hunt................we could detect ALL of the
> 'foil' (low conductive) range of targets.........a
> shocking revelation/epiphany would transpire. And
> if only Mfr's would take light of this.
>
> How tall is the gold cross that you tested?
> ....... As tall/taller than a quarter? And is it
> hollow or solid?
>
> Tom

Hey Tom...the gold cross I tested was TINY. Not even the height of a dime and half as wide. I'm assuming it was solid only because I can't imagine them being able to create and/or bother to make something so small with hollow gold. Is this significant?

Jeff..........I now question if it is gold plated silver.........or is solid. This makes a huge difference. Is it marked 14Kt? The marking should be very small......and on the eyelet.

Yes, most small gold (many with precious stones) are found in the dry sand ..... when you do NOT have to have your unit in the 'wet salt' mode. Major performance gain.......if you can come out of the 'salt' mode. ---- And of all the small gold found in the dry sand (earrings, pendants)...... switch your detector over to 'salt' mode...........and learn if you would have found them in the wet salt.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jeff..........I now question if it is gold plated
> silver.........or is solid. This makes a huge
> difference. Is it marked 14Kt? The marking should
> be very small......and on the eyelet.


Hey Tom...It's solid 14KT. Needed a loupe to view the jewelers mark. I suppose that means that 14kt gold has a higher probability of detection when in Salt mode versus 10kt? Not valid for the purpose of this test but useful information just the same.

You are correct. 14Kt is more detectable vs. 10Kt.

Okay. Here's where "Wet Salt Training" is critical to those of whom are truly SERIOUS about beach detecting. It is also a financial gold mine of tremendous opportunity for Mfr's......should they feel the need to heed. . . . . or.......at least, acknowledge.

In the link below...... you will find two gold crosses.

Gold cross on the left: 18Kt solid
Gold cross on the right: 14Kt hollow (it's as tall as a half-dollar)

A correctly tuned CZ will NOT detect either cross whilst in 'SALT' mode. Air-test OR on the wet salt sand.


If CZ is NOT in the 'SALT' mode....(((this means 'normal'...or 'enhanced' mode for CZ-3D))):

It will detect the 18Kt solid cross to a depth of 3.5"......both modes (all-metal and ID modes).
It will detect the 14Kt hollow cross to a depth of 2.5"....both modes (all-metal and ID modes).

Minelab Explorer/Excal/Sov will NOT detect either cross ....... with these crosses laying flat on the surface of wet salt sand.

Gold Bug-2 will detect 18Kt solid cross to a depth of 7" in dirt or dry sand.

Only detector in the world (thus far) that will find either cross in the wet salt sand.....is the AquaStar-II......a unit custom-made by a guy of whom no longer produces these units. ((( This is where a 8uS - 9uS pulse delay is crucial ))).

IF FOLKS ONLY KNEW........how many of these types of targets (of which NONE of them have ever been recovered........only to just continue to accumulate) are on our beaches/oceans/swimming-holes/lakes. Gold crosses is a good example..........NEVER to forsake pendents, charms, earrings, bracelets, toe rings, anklets...........etc....................

More to follow.

Use this link below:

[www.dankowskidetectors.com]


Tom

Likewise with my experimentation with the Sov in Disc. on wet salt sand. Disappointing to say the least. I get better results with my Aquasound, but I'm still having a hard time hunting with this concentric coil after using a DD for all these years. You have to practically scrape the sand to hear the deep targets especially with the land coil.
Tom, when you said your Sov/Excal can't hear the gold even laying on the sand, did you mean in Discriminate mode? Reason I ask is because I can detect MOST small gold I test at least down an inch or two in all-metal, even with the S12. Are your results different?
Glad to see the Salt Training is continuing to 103. Thanks Tom.

The Sov & Excal..............and don't forget.....the Explorer. Tested in BOTH all-metal mode and in ID mode. Yes, the Sov/Excal are a bit more sensitive in all-metal mode...........but still not enough to detect these two crosses.

Tom...are you saying the CZ machines can hunt wet salt sand in Normal/Enhanced3D modes? I haven't tried but I didn't think you could GB the CZ3D for the wet salt sand while in Enhanced mode.

No............I have never been able to run a CZ in normal or enhanced mode in the wet salt sand. It always needs to be in the 'salt' mode. This has been my experience from Southern Virginia............all the way down to the Florida Keys.

How does the Whites DF PI respond in this test? Any one hear if the DF can be be tuned to the correct cycle to find the small stuff?((Micro Gold and diamond studs)) I'm on disability and could use a few extra dollars.

Nothing out there (with current technology) will detect diamond stud earrings or any micro gold jewelry in the wet salt.

Not even your Aqua-star II?

Correct. The AquaStar-II will NOT detect micro-jewelry like gold stud earrings.

A couple of weeks ago I was hunting the dry sand with my GMT. The tide was going out so I thought I would try the wet sand.
I had my Sen at 6-7 and my sat at about 8, in manual grd bal. The detector was running very smooth which i wasn't expecting, and I found
a small ladies gold ring that had been cut in half. I was a little suprised to find it because this beach get's worked hard, and it appears to have been there for a while. It was approx 4-6 inches. I know this is not micro jewelry, but would this indicate that the gmt would be capable of finding micro in the wet sand.

turtleman

Impressive.............especially if this was in the wet salt.

Ran another test with the GMT at my ugly beach. Litterely a floor of hot rocks. So I grd bal the detector set sen about 6-7 and sat speed 9-10.
When I first start I'm thinking this is nuts. So many H,R's . Then I started, while swinging the detector very very slow to listen between the rocks,
and in the background I could hear the threshold hum, and it was dead smooth. So I say to myself, the detector is running very stable. So I then decided to ignore all signals from the HR's because they do have a pretty destinctive tone and just listen for a change in the pitch of the tone.
First target is a high pitch crisper tone. Pull tab!! Then a couple of nails, bottle caps and a flattened clad quarter. Now i'm hunting right on the rocks were all of the sand has been removed, and all of these targets were within about 4" and a lot of them were right on the surface less than an inch.And some of these targets have been there for awhile, so they are not sinking.
So I'm thinking I'm hunting with a gold detector on the wet salt water sand, and the detector has the ablity to detect micron gold so maybe i can locate some of the targets that other detectors are blind to. The other lesson was that it is not worth while to dig past 6".
I am not trying to promote the GMT, I am just looking for the key to all the undetectable gold!!! I keep you informed

That is exactly what I do when I test a new unit on the beach. Also........I bring a few gold test-targets...........for a go/no-go answer. This usually settles all questions.

Never thought of bringing my own gold test targets. That will be my next test. Thanks for that Tom. Will save me much time.

The most important tool.............most important test-standard..............is a small (real.....not plated) gold cross.......for any true/serious beach detectorist. I am repeating my words due to the monumental importance of this test-standard (test target.....the gold cross). This is THE most important tool for comparing wet salt beach detectors..........and/or..........optimizing the settings of a existing beach unit. Ideally, a CZ that can detect this "test-standard".........should be able to detect it at a air-test range of 5"- 6" when it is NOT in the salt mode. Then...............................let all of the real tests begin. You (now) have a true/real gold item that can now be utilized forever...........as a base-reference standard......................for which you can 'educate' and 'standardize' your abilities.............including peace-of-mind. Ultimately..........your final summational resultant............will be: MUCH better success in the real world. Never use a ring as a test-standard tool.

I should have started this entire thread with this data...............yet, needed to build a platform....and work up to this status/level.......................and......it truly is a much more advanced level of 'beach physics/dynamics/understanding' ..... and is truly at a level of Salt training 103. When you have this specific type of test-standard target...............and start comparing and/or adjusting/tweaking with it..............you will see/witness many eye-openers...........and start to ascertain a higher level of 'awareness'; subsequently, your beach finds will increase......and start to expose items that you never knew were there.

Tom if it's unrealistic for a CZ to be able to detect these small gold crosses in "salt" mode, then I guess I really don't understand the point of using it as a baseline?

I would think an object that has a better probability of being detected, such as a ladies 14K ring would make more sense, no?

These gold crosses usually provide a "go/no-go" answer...............whereas a small gold ring is go/go answer.....requiring a precise measurement to delineate. AND ...........nearly ALL detectors can detect rings.............but............gold crosses provide a baseline challange.........unto which the beaches are littered with them.....as none of them have been recovered. And the list does not stop with specifically only a gold cross. There are plenty of other small gold targets that still remain undetected in wet salt.

Bottom line: When you find a detector that can detect open-hoop earrings and gold crosses in the wet salt.........many doors will open (including eyes).

That makes sense, thanks.

I've been reading some exceptionally great feedback on the new Fisher Goldbug SE as an outstanding salt water wet sand beach hunting unit, even besting the CZ. I would be curious how it would do on the small gold cross test in the wet salt sand?

ME TOO!!!

This was such a great thread I thought I would throw it back up front!

Tom,
I am not very experienced but trying.
I own an older 1996 CZ3 & hunt east coast Florida beaches. So what overall settings do you suggest I use on it to hunt these beaches ?? Thanks

Not sure if Tom or Cal got any responses or input on how the Gold Bug SE works on the wet, salt sand. I can attest it does great here in NJ and have found both gold and silver with it.

I have used CZ's extensively on the beaches here, but on certain iron infested beaches, I now use the GB SE. Much faster recovery speed, less iron falsing/fooling and it is more sensitive to smaller targets. Not sure if it beats it in overall depth, but it does go deep on quarter sized and above targets.

so am I right when saying, after you GB in the wet sand, you manual GB 5 to 10 notchers lower to be more sensitive to smaller gold