MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE

steveg........not yet! (((but: not 'separate ears'))).

All others: In reference to the Nokta/Makro Legend........try this:

Burry a dime at 10".
Burry a dime at 14".

Test 4-KHz on both dimes.
Test SMF on both dimes.

You will discover a fundamental SMF error.

I demonstrated this to a Nokta/Makro engineer.
Then............... he replicated the error to/for himself.
Then............. we went live on-the-wire (video conference) with Nokta/Makro Istanbul, Turkey...... and demonstrated error to the Chief Design Engineer.
(((Names deliberately withheld))).

NASA-Tom Wrote:
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> steveg........not yet! (((but: not 'separate ears'

Tom-

I am thinking of the DTMF (touchtone used by the phone company) system as an example. Overlapping tones - a group of ascending tones for the conductive value and another set of ascending tones, distinct from the first, for the ferrous value. Every X-Y coordinate / point would have a distinctive pair of tones for its' audio value. The ear is very good at differentiating tones.

In the case of multiple targets under the coil at once, two sets of tones would be quite distinctive from each other, in the case of a rusty nail AND a silver dime. An M-core user would hear and see the two different 'targets' and proceed as they see fit.

Rich -

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one more good target before I go.

Interesting, Rich...hmmm.

And, thank you, NASA-Tom, for the info. I figured there was not much you could say yet, BUT -- to clarify ONLY that it won't be "one in one ear, one in the other" tells me a few things...

I'll be curious to see how both sets of tones will be heard in both ears, AND decipherable (as Rich was describing).

Steve

Mixed mode with stereo audio should be an option on any high performance detector IMHO. It shouldn't be hard to implement.

Chris

"Stereo audio should be an option on any high performance detector ..."
Definitely. I told NokMak to design the Legend to be stereo-capable, when the 'naming contest' was running, and they asked for features requests. I believe I posted similarly about the Equinox before its release.
Whether either of these machines ARE stereo-capable is still an unknown. I can say the Equinox audio output on the headphone socket appears to be seperate L and R signals. The 'switching' between internal speaker and headphones is done electronically, rather than by mechanically breaking switch contacts etc. The presense of a low resistance on the R ( right ) channel causes the internal speaker to mute, and audio to appear on the headphone outputs. This tells me L & R are not shorted together as a mono signal.

In theory, it should be very easy to make a modern machine stereo-capable. The audio is generated by a microprocessor, so the only addition is a second signal from another processor pin. Two audio amplifiers are needed, but that's normal, cheap and easy. For the cordless headphones link, it's obvious that any Bluetooth variant is stereo. Any proprietary system ( eg. Wi-Stream) will be based around chipsets that are for stereo signals, so there's no obvious reason why the wireless aspect of a machine should prevent stereo operation.

So don’t throw away your Nauty so fast ;-). Seems weird to me that many years ago, didn’t Nautilus have that feature as a basic function? What a great detector they were in their day especially for the relic hunters. Now it’s not even a desired feature. Wouldnt it be easy to implement if detectors had that technology so many years back?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2022 12:38AM by Gary in Daytona.

Interesting/correct comments. All of them.

steveg Wrote:
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>
> Got my name near the front of my dealer's list, also, Cal. Maybe we can help each other out, with the learning curve
>
> Steve

Absolutely, looks like there's quite a bit more to it then it's predecessor. Very curious about the graph and to see how this works in the field, could be really interesting.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> steveg Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Got my name near the front of my dealer's list,
> also, Cal. Maybe we can help each other out, with
> the learning curve
> >
> > Steve
>
> Absolutely, looks like there's quite a bit more to
> it then it's predecessor. Very curious about the
> graph and to see how this works in the field, coul
> d be really interesting.


Totally agree.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting with bated breath, for the upcoming (hopefully soon) "data dumps" from our gracious host! (And hopefully, starting with the "skinny" about those mysterious "two more things" that have been alluded to... )

Steve

Steve

One of the 'things' (items) is now 100% complete.

We're trying like perdition to hold true to our word....... and roll-out MC on originally intended (and publicly announced) release date. DIFFICULT....... but still possible.

NASA-Tom, that's really good news!

What are the chances that the other one gets done also, pre-release?

(I can't wait to hear about them, once you are at liberty to discuss...)

Steve

Tom thanks for the update, really glad to hear it's headed in the right direction!

Would love to hear what the road to perdition is?

This could be an epic fall/winter/spring of detecting if the powers that be can make the stars and planets align in the right order

Exciting times here. I wonder if they can just release the machine and then via an update add the promised features? Would help sales due to Christmas and get it in our hands sooner.

Looking forward to this machine due, in large part, to that 2D screen. Not really like an E-Trac 2D screen (and no bouncing on deep targets! lol but liked that) but love having the extra information.
This is particularly useful for people like me who don't get out as often and therefore my ears are not quite as good, detecting wise, as in the past.

I've always wanted a light E-Trac like machine. This is as close as we will probably ever get.

I wonder if the extra coil webbing houses another coil winding?

Extra ribbing on coil = extra rigid tolerance requirement(s). (((There's no windings/wire in the additional ribbing))).

We would never release a product 'knowing' it still needs an update. Then.................. after rollout/release................. send the 'fix' (under the guise of: "upgrade")...... with a new software update. Bad business practice!

steve........ in-work.

I hope the Manticore doesn't false in iron like the Equinox does. It sounds like it controls the iron better.

All I ever wanted was a 3 pound etrac....... Why not add a ferrous number in addition to the visual ferrous location?

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

khouse Wrote:
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> All I ever wanted was a 3 pound etrac....... Why n
> ot add a ferrous number in addition to the visual
> ferrous location?


+1

A Lighter ETrac would have been Nice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2022 01:51PM by DJW-OR.

Delete



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2022 12:18AM by reddirtdigger.

khouse Wrote:
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> All I ever wanted was a 3 pound etrac....... Why n
> ot add a ferrous number in addition to the visual
> ferrous location?

+2

Should be easy to add that as the unit is essentially graphing it in the 2D part of the screen?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2022 12:59PM by earthmansurfer.

earthmansurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> khouse Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > All I ever wanted was a 3 pound etrac....... Why
> n
> > ot add a ferrous number in addition to the visua
> l
> > ferrous location?
>
> +2
>
> Should be easy to add that as the unit is essentia
> lly graphing it in the 2D part of the screen?
My thoughts as well. Been waiting on an fast and lite etrac for 14 years. I assume FBS is dead? Looks like the Manticore is the closest we can come???. So throw an old etrac user a bone and give us an fe numerical readout. I mean the Manticore already has the #12 line burnt in the dusplay.......

Can do!!!----Tack on another thousand bucks!----Make that screen so you can actually see the #s in the sunlight also!

earthmansurfer and khouse -- I TOTALLY agree with you both. I want the FE-CO readout, also...and YES, it MUST be already a part of the calculations, internally, to be able to plot it on the 2D screen. NASA-Tom alluded to there being "99 points" of ID on the Ferrous side of things; all we need is to have an option to set our numeric VDI readout to TWO digits, instead of one. Should be able to be done through software, not even requiring any hardware changes. Just plot "10-85" for instance (FE-CO) instead of just "85" (CO only).

For those who couldn't care less, fine -- keep your VDI readout set to "CO value only." But for those of us who DO care, let us set our VDI readout to "FE and CO values."

Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2022 07:24PM by steveg.

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> earthmansurfer and khouse -- I TOTALLY agree with
> you both. I want the FE-CO readout, also...and YE
> S, it MUST be already a part of the calculations,
> internally, to be able to plot it on the 2D screen
> . NASA-Tom alluded to there being "99 points" of
> ID on the Ferrous side of things; all we need is t
> o have an option to set our numeric VDI readout to
> TWO digits, instead of one. Should be able to be
> done through software, not even requiring any hard
> ware changes. Just plot "10-85" for instance (FE-
> CO) instead of just "85" (CO only).
>
> For those who couldn't care less, fine -- keep you
> r VDI readout set to "CO value only." But for th
> ose of us who DO care, let us set our VDI readout
> to "FE and CO values."
>
> Steve
Great idea!

khouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> earthmansurfer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > khouse Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > All I ever wanted was a 3 pound etrac....... W
> hy
> > n
> > > ot add a ferrous number in addition to the vis
> ua
> > l
> > > ferrous location?
> >
> > +2
> >
> > Should be easy to add that as the unit is essent
> ia
> > lly graphing it in the 2D part of the screen?
> My thoughts as well. Been waiting on an fast and
> lite etrac for 14 years. I assume FBS is dead? L
> ooks like the Manticore is the closest we can come
> ???. So throw an old etrac user a bone and give u
> s an fe numerical readout. I mean the Manticore a
> lready has the #12 line burnt in the dusplay......
> .

I believe FBS (in its pure form) is dead, but they are still using aspects of it. Someone correct me if wrong, but I believe I read something similar. And I believe further that the Manticore is combining tech, not just an improved Equinox.
You might want to read through the threads on Findmall. I know I saw it mentioned somewhere.

When I saw the 2D screen, I was stoked, but then someone just mentioned there is no Fe number and that is a bummer. Again, I get that ears are everything but I won't be hunting as often, so having that extra input (visually) will help compensate for the lack of sensitivity in my ears.
And yeah, I been wanting a light E-Trac for 14 years as well, lol. I don't mind about speed if they can compensate with swinging it slower (FBS is supposedly not fast.) I'm a coin hunter, mostly in meadow or park. Though currently on break. ;-)

And agreed Steve!

We are two generations past FBS.

A little more data that I can share:

None of the bluetooth/wireless stuff from EQX will work on the Manticore. This sounds terrible/disappointing ........ BUT:
The new next-Gen bluetooth/wireless system on Manticore presents:
1. Even lower latency.
2. Even lower EMI.
3. Better audible clarity.

This could not be achieved with the EQX bluetooth system.

Its been a kind of leap frog .... we went to larger and better coils..... then headphones..... Machines and now headphones as well. Are these going to be bone phones? Can we find LL headphones that work with it? Frankly ... headphones normally arent a priority with the company. MLs water phones havent changed in years..... good ole yellows. One of these day maybe machines wont be sold with phones to help cut the cost. Now..... will phones like Tony Eisenhows, GrayGhost and others work correctly/as well as the LL?

That coil..... it appears to be designed like 2 coils.

One of the things going into this project was.................. unsuspectingly....change the way we detect. Change the way we think. Mission: accomplished.
I am not yet comfortable going into any detail about this.......yet. But....... I am willing to share this data.......without divulging anything about the electronic platform.

Also: Item two = Complete

It'll trump nearly every aspect of EQX; albeit..... at a bit higher price tag (for good/legitimate reason).
Three years of effort.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of the things going into this project was.....
> ............. unsuspectingly....change the way we
> detect. Change the way we think. Mission: accompli
> shed.
> I am not yet comfortable going into any detail abo
> ut this.......yet. But....... I am willing to shar
> e this data.......without divulging anything about
> the electronic platform.
>
> Also: Item two = Complete
>
> It'll trump nearly every aspect of EQX; albeit....
> . at a bit higher price tag (for good/legitimate r
> eason).
> Three years of effort.

NASA-Tom, this is TERRIFIC news. I had been waiting (hoping) to hear you say that both of these final details had been completed. I'm so to hear you confirm that both were accomplished.

Do you have any idea as to how much longer it might be, before you feel comfortable starting the "data dump?"

Steve